Discussion:
OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
(too old to reply)
Magoo
2003-11-14 23:54:38 UTC
Permalink
Update: OSA 101 Series, 3 Years Later

When I left the Church <Gack> of Scientology, in July of 2000, I left with
one gigantic secret: I had been a member of their Top Secret OSA
International Internet Secret Mafia. When I left, by the way, I literally
escaped. I was followed to the Airport by their Vice President of
Scientology, met in Chicago by OSA members, and finally assisted out of the
Tampa Airport by the Tampa Police, with a gang of OSA and “OT’s” there
trying to stop me from leaving.

((For anyone truly new, OSA stands for The Office of Special Affairs and is
the Church of Scientology’s legal and PR department, or so they say. In
truth, this is a story about their dirty Tricks Department, which IS a part
of OSA, which is run by their top Executives in Scientology))

In the mid ‘90’s I was asked to “help” them, my best friend and auditor,
Class 8, OT 7, Senior C/S, Staff member, Bill Yaude. I have written up the
full story about my assistance as a volunteer with OSA in trying to “handle
the critics” and finally my realizing they were/are actually trying to stop
free speech. Here is the link to the OSA 101 Story:
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm


However, I wanted to write an update to this OSA 101 series, as I feel it
is needed.

Since I have left, OSA has tried a number of things, resulting in their
“Fair Game” tactics. While In, I swore this was cancelled, as I believed
what I was told. I am here to tell all, it is most definitely NOT cancelled.
OSA does creepy things all the time to try to stop their critics from
speaking out.

They tried to pin a Criminal Conviction on me for sitting in a Red
Santa’s chair in Clearwater, Fl. (This was something literally I had to go
to court for, they claiming I had violated their feeble Injunction, trying
to stop the critics from picketing around the date of the death of Lisa
McPherson, a Scientologist who died grossly due to their medical
malpractice). I and 14 others and spent 9 days in court fighting with OSA’s
Mike Reinder and many of their top attorneys).
They ended up losing; the Judge ruled it was NOT a criminal Conviction. It
was their worst move for me, as in leaving I had met enough people and heard
the ~true~ stories (Vs Scientology’s lies) to know there is Fair Game.
However, now it not only showed me TRULY there IS Fair Game, they’d Fair
Gamed ME!

They’ve (OSA) tried many other Fair Game actions, including trying to post
many lies about me here on ARS. From the beginning they tried to ‘handle’
me, telling me I was “Too Over restimulated and I needed to take a rest”.
These are their terms to go away and shut up! Obviously I’m still here.

Recently, they came up with a new plan. Now before I go into this, let me re
state what their goals were/are, which I’ve been posting for the last 3
years:

1) Take out Bob Minton and LMT.
2) Black PR the Critics (Post tons of lies about them, so they look and
sound horrible, unbelievable, and distrusted).
3) Finally, post whatever has to be posted so that ARS looks insane, no one
will want to read it, and will leave. (This includes always driving any
“hot” topics off the first page that the general public might see).

I am writing this mostly for the newer people who come onto ARS, as the
regulars have figured this out, long ago.

However, they came up with a new plan, a few months ago. I’m not sure which
thing I did that made DM order to “Nail Tory” …but someone named “Truth
Seeker” has been flat out on that, for some time. Well, he actually also
puts down other critics, and X-Scientologists, but recently he has made many
posts lying about me.

Here are my observations:
1. Some say he is ‘just a troll’. Well, I disagree as he is fully following
OSA’s Plans to the tee. He/she never reads what I say, which is also an OSA
thing: They cannot, really, as they might wake up.

2. TS never answers any questions. Again, this is totally OSA:
”Post the lie, and move on”.

3. TS never posts ANY facts. If you read his/her posts, they are filled with
the Wizard of OZ attempts to spread FEAR.
“Don’t look, don’t read, be careful”.
Again, Hubbard’s basic rule of thumb is “Never defend, always attack!” So
TS is doing this completely by posting these lies, over and over. What
exactly is there to be fearful of? I am saying, these are the Web sites I
suggest.
These sites are created by X-Scientologists (Some of whom Scientology took
to court), and critics, most of whom C of $ has now posted on their Hate Web
pages: DUH! By the way, I don’t see ‘ol “Truthseeker” there, do you?

However, even if you are worried about that, just type in
Google, and type in “Scientology” and read.

It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn’t notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts. The facts, the court doc’
s, are on the Internet, and IF you read up, you shall find out both sides.

Once you do, I suggest you make up your own mind. That’s the best advice
Andreas gave to me in July, 2000, and I still think it is the best. As he
said, “I don’t think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed. I suggest you read up, study both sides, and decide for
yourself”. I did, and left soon after.

4. TS posts HUGE volumes of lies, over and over again.
Hubbard said, “It doesn’t matter what you say, if you say
it enough, to enough people, they will begin to believe it”.
He’s right on target there…although I’m not sure how many
People believe him. I’ve noticed one or two people will try to
Cover their Asses saying, “Well, even if Tory is a ____”
But that has been true since I first began posting.

5. I have noticed he/she basically posts a large majority of what I have
posted since I left Scientology, as if HE thought it up! I left and posted
what the actual goals were of OSA, as I’d been working with them as a
volunteer.
See http://www.torymagoo.org and you can see all the posts I
wrote, and when. At the bottom, under my name, I have posted the year and
month for most. Now he posts the same things, as if it is his. I read very
little of what he posts, but
Others can check and see if he’s used your own words too.
Check it out and see.

6. Last and most important is this OSA op NEVER posts any actual facts about
the abuses of Scientology, as is true of anyone working for OSA. (See their
goals above).

These are sites I suggest reading. They have information and facts and
experiences on them that C of $ doesn’t want you to see. These are only a
few:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.xenutv.com (videos)
http://www.torymagoo.org (OT 7 Speaks out)
http://www.altreligionscientology.org (Many other great sites
listed here)
http://www.scientologywatch.org
and read up on these abuses, posted by Free Speech Advocates and
X-Scientologists as well.

I cannot say it enough: Study up for yourself. Find out for yourself.
Scientology was built by a mad man: L. Ron Hubbard, who wanted people to
ONLY believe him. He was a liar, a cheap, a wife abuser, a drug taker, and
used medical malpractice to harm many,
Myself included. If you want to read about that, go to
http://www.xenu.net Personal Stories, Tory’s Story and
Read my affidavit. That tells a lot about this organization hiding behind
religion.

I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will agree
with them, “The critics are all nuts”. I know, as I did for many years! This
is their program, run out of RTC, to stop Free Speech on the Internet. The
facts are unbelievable at first, as I know for me; I was SO Insulated it
truly was just like
”The Truman Show” for me. I suggest you do your own research.

Good luck in your hunt :)

Tory Christman
Aka: Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight!~
Burbank, CA
Aka: Tory Bezazian ( Per Divorce due to leaving)
X-Scientologist after 30 years “in”
X- OT 7 after 7 years on it
X- Sea Org (briefly, 1971)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X- OSA Int Volunteer for 20 years
X-Staff at CC and AOLA
X-OSA Int Top Secret Internet Mafia Member, until I found out what they
were ~really~ doing and quit.
X- Executive Director of The Scientology Parishioners League
For thinking and speaking my mind, I am now:

Declared a Suppressive Person (SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from The Church of Scientology *wooo hooooo!!!)
Free at LAST!
arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
2003-11-15 00:56:02 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:54:38 -0800, "Magoo" <***@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

Webbed at bottom of osa 101

you can goto the update directly with this link

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm#update
Post by Magoo
Update: OSA 101 Series, 3 Years Later
When I left the Church <Gack> of Scientology, in July of 2000, I left with
one gigantic secret: I had been a member of their Top Secret OSA
International Internet Secret Mafia. When I left, by the way, I literally
escaped. I was followed to the Airport by their Vice President of
Scientology, met in Chicago by OSA members, and finally assisted out of the
Tampa Airport by the Tampa Police, with a gang of OSA and “OT’s” there
trying to stop me from leaving.
((For anyone truly new, OSA stands for The Office of Special Affairs and is
the Church of Scientology’s legal and PR department, or so they say. In
truth, this is a story about their dirty Tricks Department, which IS a part
of OSA, which is run by their top Executives in Scientology))
In the mid ‘90’s I was asked to “help” them, my best friend and auditor,
Class 8, OT 7, Senior C/S, Staff member, Bill Yaude. I have written up the
full story about my assistance as a volunteer with OSA in trying to “handle
the critics” and finally my realizing they were/are actually trying to stop
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
However, I wanted to write an update to this OSA 101 series, as I feel it
is needed.
Since I have left, OSA has tried a number of things, resulting in their
“Fair Game” tactics. While In, I swore this was cancelled, as I believed
what I was told. I am here to tell all, it is most definitely NOT cancelled.
OSA does creepy things all the time to try to stop their critics from
speaking out.
They tried to pin a Criminal Conviction on me for sitting in a Red
Santa’s chair in Clearwater, Fl. (This was something literally I had to go
to court for, they claiming I had violated their feeble Injunction, trying
to stop the critics from picketing around the date of the death of Lisa
McPherson, a Scientologist who died grossly due to their medical
malpractice). I and 14 others and spent 9 days in court fighting with OSA’s
Mike Reinder and many of their top attorneys).
They ended up losing; the Judge ruled it was NOT a criminal Conviction. It
was their worst move for me, as in leaving I had met enough people and heard
the ~true~ stories (Vs Scientology’s lies) to know there is Fair Game.
However, now it not only showed me TRULY there IS Fair Game, they’d Fair
Gamed ME!
They’ve (OSA) tried many other Fair Game actions, including trying to post
many lies about me here on ARS. From the beginning they tried to ‘handle’
me, telling me I was “Too Over restimulated and I needed to take a rest”.
These are their terms to go away and shut up! Obviously I’m still here.
Recently, they came up with a new plan. Now before I go into this, let me re
state what their goals were/are, which I’ve been posting for the last 3
1) Take out Bob Minton and LMT.
2) Black PR the Critics (Post tons of lies about them, so they look and
sound horrible, unbelievable, and distrusted).
3) Finally, post whatever has to be posted so that ARS looks insane, no one
will want to read it, and will leave. (This includes always driving any
“hot” topics off the first page that the general public might see).
I am writing this mostly for the newer people who come onto ARS, as the
regulars have figured this out, long ago.
However, they came up with a new plan, a few months ago. I’m not sure which
thing I did that made DM order to “Nail Tory” …but someone named “Truth
Seeker” has been flat out on that, for some time. Well, he actually also
puts down other critics, and X-Scientologists, but recently he has made many
posts lying about me.
1. Some say he is ‘just a troll’. Well, I disagree as he is fully following
OSA’s Plans to the tee. He/she never reads what I say, which is also an OSA
thing: They cannot, really, as they might wake up.
”Post the lie, and move on”.
3. TS never posts ANY facts. If you read his/her posts, they are filled with
the Wizard of OZ attempts to spread FEAR.
“Don’t look, don’t read, be careful”.
Again, Hubbard’s basic rule of thumb is “Never defend, always attack!” So
TS is doing this completely by posting these lies, over and over. What
exactly is there to be fearful of? I am saying, these are the Web sites I
suggest.
These sites are created by X-Scientologists (Some of whom Scientology took
to court), and critics, most of whom C of $ has now posted on their Hate Web
pages: DUH! By the way, I don’t see ‘ol “Truthseeker” there, do you?
However, even if you are worried about that, just type in
Google, and type in “Scientology” and read.
It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn’t notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts. The facts, the court doc’
s, are on the Internet, and IF you read up, you shall find out both sides.
Once you do, I suggest you make up your own mind. That’s the best advice
Andreas gave to me in July, 2000, and I still think it is the best. As he
said, “I don’t think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed. I suggest you read up, study both sides, and decide for
yourself”. I did, and left soon after.
4. TS posts HUGE volumes of lies, over and over again.
Hubbard said, “It doesn’t matter what you say, if you say
it enough, to enough people, they will begin to believe it”.
He’s right on target there…although I’m not sure how many
People believe him. I’ve noticed one or two people will try to
Cover their Asses saying, “Well, even if Tory is a ____”
But that has been true since I first began posting.
5. I have noticed he/she basically posts a large majority of what I have
posted since I left Scientology, as if HE thought it up! I left and posted
what the actual goals were of OSA, as I’d been working with them as a
volunteer.
See http://www.torymagoo.org and you can see all the posts I
wrote, and when. At the bottom, under my name, I have posted the year and
month for most. Now he posts the same things, as if it is his. I read very
little of what he posts, but
Others can check and see if he’s used your own words too.
Check it out and see.
6. Last and most important is this OSA op NEVER posts any actual facts about
the abuses of Scientology, as is true of anyone working for OSA. (See their
goals above).
These are sites I suggest reading. They have information and facts and
experiences on them that C of $ doesn’t want you to see. These are only a
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.xenutv.com (videos)
http://www.torymagoo.org (OT 7 Speaks out)
http://www.altreligionscientology.org (Many other great sites
listed here)
http://www.scientologywatch.org
and read up on these abuses, posted by Free Speech Advocates and
X-Scientologists as well.
I cannot say it enough: Study up for yourself. Find out for yourself.
Scientology was built by a mad man: L. Ron Hubbard, who wanted people to
ONLY believe him. He was a liar, a cheap, a wife abuser, a drug taker, and
used medical malpractice to harm many,
Myself included. If you want to read about that, go to
http://www.xenu.net Personal Stories, Tory’s Story and
Read my affidavit. That tells a lot about this organization hiding behind
religion.
I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will agree
with them, “The critics are all nuts”. I know, as I did for many years! This
is their program, run out of RTC, to stop Free Speech on the Internet. The
facts are unbelievable at first, as I know for me; I was SO Insulated it
truly was just like
”The Truman Show” for me. I suggest you do your own research.
Good luck in your hunt :)
Tory Christman
Aka: Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight!~
Burbank, CA
Aka: Tory Bezazian ( Per Divorce due to leaving)
X-Scientologist after 30 years “in”
X- OT 7 after 7 years on it
X- Sea Org (briefly, 1971)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X- OSA Int Volunteer for 20 years
X-Staff at CC and AOLA
X-OSA Int Top Secret Internet Mafia Member, until I found out what they
were ~really~ doing and quit.
X- Executive Director of The Scientology Parishioners League
Declared a Suppressive Person (SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from The Church of Scientology *wooo hooooo!!!)
Free at LAST!
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
Support http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
Virginia
2003-11-15 02:30:42 UTC
Permalink
Tory,

I see you had to silently concede the point I made in my post to you. The
post I refer to is included below, and to refresh your memory it was
concerning your post incorrectly tying Truth Seeker's arrival with a post of
yours that apparently was actually AFTER Truth Seeker's arrival.

In this post "OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later" that you did, there is some
new, careful wording by you. Which again, is after my post to you which you
still haven't answered.

You are now trying to shift the attention OFF of that you screwed up on what
you tried to have believed as to Truth Seeker's arrival.

And...you are now trying to shift time around on that point, to some OTHER
new explanation for Truth Seeker.

Scroll down...


"Magoo" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:***@news2.lightlink.com...


SNIP

Here's an example of some new wording on the matter by Tory.
Post by Magoo
It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn't notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts.
My response to the above:

Yes, facts like what is contained in that post I did answering your
allegation re: Truth Seeker's arrival.
Post by Magoo
I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will agree
with them, "The critics are all nuts".
"Scientology" is not confusing anyone. It's a subject.

People in the Church - yes.

You - yes.

Truth Seeker - yes.

But that puts you, right in there amongst those who wish to confuse people
on Scientology itself, and therein lies the crux of the matter.

Again.

Virginia


SNIP


Here's the post I did again, after which Arnie "plonked" me and you now see
Tory changing around her story in various ways:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: Tory and "Truth Seeker"

Readers, the following is a post that I just did in response to a post by
Tory, on the thread "Tory Tory Tory....Here's Why".

I am posting this as a seperate thread as well, for any readers who are not
following the abovementioned thread.

Virginia
Post by Magoo
Ever since I, Tory, made a post noting that I had spoken with a Class 8
who
Post by Magoo
told me many people 'in' where done, and were actually reading ARS....ol
"Truthseeker" arrived a few days later here on ARS. (((He/She *may* have
been here previously, but since that time, they've been spreading huge
lies
Post by Magoo
about me consistently)).
Literally within days of that post, they arrived with the 'hat' of
spreading lies about me, in mass.
I always count the days, as I know it takes them a few days to 'get a
program together'. Sure enough, ol toothie arrived with his/her
"Tory....Tory....Tory", about three days after my post re the Class 8, and
hasn't shut up since. Guess they're a littttttttttttttle scared about
those
Post by Magoo
folks "in" who are lurking, huh?
SNIP

I can find no record on google, of any post prior to August 17, 2003, by
Tory concerning a Class 8 saying telling her how many people were "in" that
are done.

Truthseeker's first post that I could find, was August 4, 2003.

Per what Tory says above, that it was about 3 days later. This would
presumably put the post Tory is saying she did, at say between July 29 and
August 4.

I could find no such post.

However, I did find this post, that was AFTER "Truth Seeker" appeared, that
mention a post a few weeks earlier:

short header only

1.

From: Magoo (***@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: LA PICKET>>>>Announcement!
View: Complete Thread (63 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2003-08-17 03:35:52 PST

[excerpted]

"Here's why I am pretty sure they are trying SO hard to "Black PR" me:
Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In".
This person told me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in"
but are really out, and are lurking and reading ARS".
I posted that a few weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to
the day, ever since. They are SO predictable."


The only post that even comes close to discussing the subject of people
lurking etc, by a person as quoted by Tory on August 17, 2003, is this one:

[short header only]

Search Result 1
From: Magoo (***@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: IF You're Lurking.......
View: Complete Thread (7 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2003-07-14 19:42:03 PST

---

In this post, Tory mentions getting a briefing:

"Hi :) I had a little briefing last night, and found out some cool
stuff. Don't worry, no names were mentioned. However, I did find out WAY
more people were lurking from within than even I thought."


But there is no mention of a Class 8, nor a quote of:

""Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are really out,
and are lurking and reading ARS".


Perhaps the following may shed further light on the subject of the
appearance of "Truth Seeker".

Here is information as to what I found that was occurring on our lines,
(private and public) just prior to the arrival of Truth Seeker.


Some short Headers only of emails that were received:

1.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad" <***@yahoo.com>
To: <***@icehouse.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:52 PM
Subject: From Brad Lisas BF

2.
----- Original Message -----
To: Virginia
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: p. joseph lisa book


Posts that were made by me:

1.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:16 AM
Subject: Full Comparison -Technical Briefing 4 transcript

2.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: Full Comparison -Technical Briefing 4 transcript


3.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: CBR Technical Briefing 4 - Significant Alterations

4.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: CBR Technical Briefing 4 - Significant Alterations

--------


If some readers were not aware of it before, these are the first in a long
line of posts proving alterations of materials in the "freezone" and as
such, were VERY significant posts on many levels.

For one thing these first posts proved conclusively that the same thing that
is going on with materials in the taken over Church, is going on in the
"Freezone". Exactly as per Mike's estimate.

The "freezone" and it's propaganda by redefinition of terms to basically
"practice of Scientology outside the Church", has been infiltrated and is
exhibiting the exact same indicators of espionage per HCOPL Counter
Espionage....AS THE CHURCH.




More email short headers:

1.

----- Original Message -----
From: Virginia
To: ***@aol.com ; Rumba Brava
Cc: Charlene Rhodes
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 2:36 AM
Subject: The real game...(resend to fix typo on aol address)


----------------------

Posts concerning Tory within three days of the arrival to the newsgroups of
the "Truth Seeker" posting identity:

1.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: OSA INT ---why do they want to stop these people?

Tory said:


I get e=mails about that almost every day. I just got one
Post by Magoo
today from someone who took my advice, and from that was able to help get
her friend free. That's LIFE!
Tory is promoting her supposed fruitful work in re: Scientology, and
scientologists again, by mentioning these "emails" she receives.

I would ask, from which free throwaway email accounts?

Hotmail, Yahoo? ..etc. etc.

I have more emails from these type of accounts than you can shake a stick
at, and they are so predictable it's really quite pathetic.

Some loose examples of lines used in emails received by both Mike and I
(literally too numerous to count):

"I am afraid of the COS, so I don't feel safe telling you my name."

"My name is (insert whatever plausible invented name which usually doesn't
match the name of the email address)" For example.."My name is Alice
Brockley. Email address is JMacintosh@ (whichever throwaway account).



"I LOVE your website,it's the most FABULOUS WONDERFUL THING I have EVER
seen!!!!! You are FABULOUS! Ron is AWESOME!! Your integrity is TRULY an
INSPIRATION!!!! (lots of capitalized words and exclamation points)"


"I have a question..(insert question that was answered prominently on the
website they just spent 2 paragraphs of glowing compliments about reading)"


"Well, if Ron is REALLY an OT...... (insert whatever the enemy line is
regarding Mike and Ron, usually it will be called channeling, practically in
the same breath of the person saying they are a Scientologist and want to go
OT"

"I have a suggestion....(insert multiple and varied solutions, to a
non-existent problem)

"Your website is very well put together, very well done, but.... just one
thing...(insert whatever standard enemy line is extant at that time about
us)."


"I am a Clear, and I want to progress on the bridge because your website has
rehabilitated me."


"I have only read a Dianetics book (often varied with ARC straightwire or
Purif). (insert numerous examples of obviously being a lot more trained than
just a Dianetics book)"

"I want to help the HASI. Can I come get services?"

"Will you audit me if I pay you?"

"I can't find an auditor, how will I get my CCRD? May I come to you?"

"I have looked at all the squirrels, and you people are simply the BEST!
Will you audit my CCRD?"

"Ralph is crazy.....Tommy sucks.... will you audit me?"

"I have money, I have comm lines, I want to help, I love your work. I can't
tell you my name right now though." (when asked some questions, can't get
their answers straight as to what work it is they love usually, or what
money, or what they brought it up for in the first place, or how they can
help when they can't even say their name)"


There ARE of course, emails that are from real, genuinely good intent,
people. Those are very easy to differentiate. I think that one part of why
this whole charade of bogus emails and people is done with us at least, is
to try and get the person to not be able to tell the real, from the
invented. In other words, get the person to think there is "no one" real,
and hopefully make it so when a real one does come, they will treat it as
one of the "trolls". It's a psy-op basically.


Tory promotes her alleged success, quite often actually, on what EMAILS she
gets.

Like I said....

Hotmail, or yahoo?


Virginia



--

2.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Two More Free.....the "Wins" just keep on Comin ,,,,:)


Tory,

Hotmail, or Yahoo?

Virginia





[Question is related to a post I did another thread where Tory is mentioning
emails she receives. (included below)]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: OSA INT ---why do they want to stop these people?

Tory is promoting her supposed fruitful work in re: Scientology, and
scientologists again, by mentioning these "emails" she receives.

I would ask, from which free throwaway email accounts?

Hotmail, Yahoo? ..etc. etc.

I have more emails from these type of accounts than you can shake a stick
at, and they are so predictable it's really quite pathetic.

Some loose examples of lines used in emails received by both Mike and I
(literally too numerous to count):

"I am afraid of the COS, so I don't feel safe telling you my name."

"My name is (insert whatever plausible invented name which usually doesn't
match the name of the email address)" For example.."My name is Alice
Brockley. Email address is JMacintosh@ (whichever throwaway account).



"I LOVE your website,it's the most FABULOUS WONDERFUL THING I have EVER
seen!!!!! You are FABULOUS! Ron is AWESOME!! Your integrity is TRULY an
INSPIRATION!!!! (lots of capitalized words and exclamation points)"


"I have a question..(insert question that was answered prominently on the
website they just spent 2 paragraphs of glowing compliments about reading)"


"Well, if Ron is REALLY an OT...... (insert whatever the enemy line is
regarding Mike and Ron, usually it will be called channeling, practically in
the same breath of the person saying they are a Scientologist and want to go
OT"

"I have a suggestion....(insert multiple and varied solutions, to a
non-existent problem)

"Your website is very well put together, very well done, but.... just one
thing...(insert whatever standard enemy line is extant at that time about
us)."


"I am a Clear, and I want to progress on the bridge because your website has
rehabilitated me."


"I have only read a Dianetics book (often varied with ARC straightwire or
Purif). (insert numerous examples of obviously being a lot more trained than
just a Dianetics book)"

"I want to help the HASI. Can I come get services?"

"Will you audit me if I pay you?"

"I can't find an auditor, how will I get my CCRD? May I come to you?"

"I have looked at all the squirrels, and you people are simply the BEST!
Will you audit my CCRD?"

"Ralph is crazy.....Tommy sucks.... will you audit me?"

"I have money, I have comm lines, I want to help, I love your work. I can't
tell you my name right now though." (when asked some questions, can't get
their answers straight as to what work it is they love usually, or what
money, or what they brought it up for in the first place, or how they can
help when they can't even say their name)"


There ARE of course, emails that are from real, genuinely good intent,
people. Those are very easy to differentiate. I think that one part of why
this whole charade of bogus emails and people is done with us at least, is
to try and get the person to not be able to tell the real, from the
invented. In other words, get the person to think there is "no one" real,
and hopefully make it so when a real one does come, t ey will treat it as
one of the "trolls". It's a psy-op basically.


Tory promotes her alleged success, quite often actually, on what EMAILS she
gets.

Like I said....

Hotmail, or yahoo?


Virginia

=================================
Post by Magoo
Dear Tory
I originally contacted you last Christmas (2002) about a friend of mine
and
Post by Magoo
long time scientologist who had joined the Sea Org. At the time that she
signed I was also a Scientologist and I was very proud that she was
willing
Post by Magoo
to make that commitment to "clear the planet". Shortly thereafter,
realizing that she was miserable, I started looking at why she might be
miserable and found myself in a sea of "entheta" (their word, NOT mine) on
the internet.
Needless to say I was amazed at what I found. I read everything and
anything I could find, both pro and con, so that I would be able to make
an
Post by Magoo
informed decision about Scientology. I was amazed that I had not thought
to
Post by Magoo
do this before - I was just willing to believe all that they told me as
"truth".
Anyway, the reason that I am writing to you today is that I wanted to
thank
Post by Magoo
you for some advice that you had given me. You told me that I needed to
go
Post by Magoo
to LA and try to meet with my friend and explain to her what I had found.
But the most important piece of advice that you gave me was (tip removed
so
Post by Magoo
OSA will not use it against people). I made the trip to LA (and it was a
nice change from _______ ) and met with my friend - although I didn't tell
her all the "stuff" I had found on the 'net, I worked it a bit
differently.
Post by Magoo
At the time it didn't seem to make much difference, she still went back to
base and was still miserable.
But, a few months ago, she finally routed out! And, it was all because I
followed your good advice and went to LA to see her - upon seeing me, she
realized that she wasn't happy in the SO and wanted out! I have been
showing her all that I have discovered and asked her to read it and show
me
Post by Magoo
otherwise!
Although I post rarely to ARS, I lurk daily, and I appreciate all that you
and others post, the links that you provide and the help that you all
extend
Post by Magoo
to all!
Thank you for all of your time and effort - without your stories and
postings, I would still be following the Scn path! And thank you for your
help in my personal situation - its been greatly appreciated!
XXXXXX
((Name withheld to protect the innocent))
My deepest Congratulations to both of these people for their
courage to do what they really want!
Love to all :)
Tory/Magoo~~dancing in the moonlight~
In for 30 years
Out for 3 years
SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster
Free at LAST!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
:)
----------------

1. Emails within 1 day of "Truth Seeker" arrival:


----- Original Message -----
From: Virginia
To: ***@aol.com ; Rumba Brava
Cc: Charlene Rhodes
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:07 AM
Subject: Fw: Perhaps love will prevail

--------


2. Posts concerning Tory within 1 day of "Truth Seeker" arrival.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: Two More Free.....the "Wins" just keep on Comin ,,,,:)
Post by Magoo
Tory,
Hotmail, or Yahoo?
Virginia
As if I'm going to tell you.
Why not?

These are very ~real~ people, with real
Post by Magoo
concerns about people (from the Church <gack>of Scientology) tracking them
down.
Saying if the emails are from Hotmail, Yahoo, or other assorted throwaway
type accounts, doesn't say their NAME nor reveal their whereabouts, by any
stretch of the imagination.

It may be a bit forward, but perhaps your attempt to get around the question
by throwing up a point that is actually disrelated, is because the emails
ARE from those kind of email accounts.
Post by Magoo
I understand you don't hear from real people who have woken up and are
leaving "The Church of Scientology"
On what basis, and from whom, do you form this understanding?

The problem with backchannel communications, emails from throwaway accounts
etc, is that lots of people get suckered by what they "want to hear".

I really hope that's not the sources where you formed YOUR understanding
from.
Post by Magoo
(what you proposed originally you were
against, and now by most posts, seem to be backing up).
I'm sorry Tory, but what you said above, is a perfect example of false
generalities intended to cause trouble, no matter how carefully you are
wording it.

I have not changed my position regarding the taken over "Church of
Scientology". More particularly, those involved with, and perpetrating what
you now see posing as the "Church of Scientology".

I have not changed my position regarding true, and actual Scientology, nor
have I ceased being a Scientologist.

So now, you try and basically lie, and somewhat indirectly say that I am
now "backing up" the taken over Church because I strongly support
Scientology itself? The fact that you would do that, or even try to do that,
reeks of desperation.

Why are you so afraid of my posts, that you would even try to spin such a
departure from the truth?

Seriously, at least some people in that same OSA you worked for, are
probably cracking up left and right over the idiocy of you trying to pass
that off as any kind of truth.

There have been NUMEROUS times that the lie that I "am OSA" has been posted
by others. Other lies along a similar line that have been posted about me
are that I "worked in OSA" or that I am "Ex-GO" or that I am "EX-USGO".

Now with you, it's the truth to say that you worked for OSA.

That's kind of interesting actually, I, who never worked for OSA, get lied
about on that point frequently, and you who DID work for OSA, don't.
Post by Magoo
Go figure!
Sorry that's the best you can do, Virginia. You shant be getting any
more
Post by Magoo
details from me, and that's simply to protect the innoncent.
No it's not, as I proved above. Since there's probably at LEAST 200,000 plus
people with yahoo and hotmail etc. accounts, I think it's pretty clear that
you're lying when you say you didn't answer because of "protecting the
innocent".

I didn't ask for their headers or their names. I asked..

Hotmail, or Yahoo etc.?

What you
Post by Magoo
believe is not my concern. Who have you helped lately?
I think you doth protest too much, and what I state as fact, IS most
definitely your concern. Apparently so much so, that you will start trying
to spin lies about what I am doing, or not doing.

So, stop doing that if you don't like having it pointed out. That's not too
difficult to figure out.

But...now to your question you asked above.

I certainly hope you aren't now asking ME for names, because that would be
awfully double-standardish of you.

Besides which, who said I ever stopped helping people that are real, and
sincere? Certainly not I.

You know, anyone can "say" anything, but that doesn't make it true.

Food for thought.

Virginia
Post by Magoo
Tory/Magoo!
[Question is related to a post I did another thread where Tory is
mentioning
emails she receives. (included below)]
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: OSA INT ---why do they want to stop these people?
Tory is promoting her supposed fruitful work in re: Scientology, and
scientologists again, by mentioning these "emails" she receives.
I would ask, from which free throwaway email accounts?
Hotmail, Yahoo? ..etc. etc.
V's intent: Make nothing of it
I get my share of trolling emails, but a lot are very very real.
Now what does that REALITY mean?
In Scientology REALITY is described as AGREEMENT.
As long all those waiting for their shiny new cars are in AGREEMENT
that they will, after the next secret level atain "OT" then the money
from rubes will continue to come in, right?
The REALITY that Virginia seeks to make nothing of, is the REALITY and
you know, there are more of them than there are Scientologists...
The Reality is that Scientology produced NOTHING.
The real meaning of 8008 ( as described by Hubbard )
is the Infinity of the person who comes into scientology
is reduced to ZERO
and the ZERO that was L Ron Hubbard the LOSER, is increased to
Infinity. (an infinity of lawyers, PI's, devoted rubes and what was
once YOUR money )
Arnie Lerma
Ferengi + Borg = Scientology
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for
the mind
http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with
no
Post by Magoo
HEAD"
----------


2. Emails within 1 day of "Truth Seeker" arrival.

----- Original Message -----
From: Virginia
To: ***@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:13 PM
Subject: Fw: Perhaps love will prevail

=================================================



"Truth Seeker" arrives.


truthseeker dns for first post.
09/29/03 21:58:45 dns 67.72.171.207
nslookup 67.72.171.207
Canonical name: dialup-67.72.171.207.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net
Addresses:
67.72.171.207

From: ***@yahoo.com (Truth Seeker)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Is Spiritual growth a Mechanical process? (word wrap fix)
Date: 4 Aug 2003 02:05:02 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.72.171.207
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1059987903 30393 127.0.0.1 (4 Aug 2003
09:05:03 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-***@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2003 09:05:03 GMT

[excerpted]

The following is of my own opinion. I'm not advocating anybody leaving
Scientology or joining. These are just some coginitions that have been
comming up in my mind that I've wanted to share and discuss with
others, critics, scientologist, OSA and the world. This is my first
post in this newsgroup.

The basis, again, in my opinion, of Dianetics and Scientology is
the "Process" or processing. It's my firm believe now that people grow
when they get good and ready to grow and it's not a mechanical
process.


----


Note the email address of "***@yahoo.com" is still in use in
September 2003, by Truth Seeker:

[short header only]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: Attention: Andrew Robertson


IP used: 67.201.23.22

09/29/03 23:36:39 dns 67.201.23.22
nslookup 67.201.23.22
Canonical name: 1Cust22.tnt1.salisbury.md.da.uu.net
Addresses:
67.201.23.22



Note the email address changes to "***@yahoo.com", on September
28, 2003:

[short headers only]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 2:05 AM
Subject: Techniques used by Scientology to "Handle" critics on this
newsgroup

IP used: 67.201.23.148




Note that the email address presented by "Truth Seeker" changed on the 28th,
and the very next day, "Truth Seeker" begins to attempt to position me as
being "in agreement" with "Truth Seeker" in regards to Tory. Note the
subject title. This is observed to be an attempted positioning by "Truth
Seeker" that "because" of "Truth Seeker" posts I "saw through Tory's vale of
lies.

This implication, or any statement along these lines, is a lie.

Tory and I were already having posting cycles, (most of which Tory had begun
running away from) PRIOR to the arrival of the "Truth Seeker" posting
identity.



[short headers only]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:54 PM
Subject: Virginia Saw Through Tory's Vale of Lies! - Take a Look!

IP used: 67.201.23.209



A post that I did within an hour of "Truth Seeker"'s attempted positioning
of me post.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:46 PM
Subject: REPOST: A blast from the past - Regarding SP Declares


"Truth Seeker" post 3 minutes later:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:49 PM
Subject: Steps Scientology is taking to stop real criticism - Reposted
09/30/03

IP used: 67.201.23.209


A post by me that arrived in ARS 2 minutes later:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:51 PM
Subject: REPOST: More blasts from the past - Magoo in 2000



"Truth Seeker" comes directly onto one of my originated threads to further
position myself and the posting identity "Truth Seeker" as aligned or "in
agreement".

In vector analysis, this is what is known as a parallel vector.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: REPOST: A blast from the past - Regarding SP Declares

IP used 67.201.23.31

================================================

Virginia
Phil Scott
2003-11-15 02:51:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Tory,
I see you had to silently concede the point I made in my post to you. The
post I refer to is included below, and to refresh your memory it was
concerning your post incorrectly tying Truth Seeker's arrival with a post of
yours that apparently was actually AFTER Truth Seeker's arrival.
No one gives a rats ass about your bogus hair splits ginny.

or the mile long threads of crap proving your hair splits..

snip
Magoo
2003-11-15 03:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Scott
Post by Virginia
Tory,
I see you had to silently concede the point I made in my post to you. The
post I refer to is included below, and to refresh your memory it was
concerning your post incorrectly tying Truth Seeker's arrival with a
post
Post by Phil Scott
of
Post by Virginia
yours that apparently was actually AFTER Truth Seeker's arrival.
No one gives a rats ass about your bogus hair splits ginny.
or the mile long threads of crap proving your hair splits..
snip
Well said. Does she disagree that OSA breaks up families? Does she say OSA
does not Lie?
That's all I care about. All the rest is hair splitting BS.

Thanks, Phil.....Have a great nite :)

Tory/Magoo!
Virginia
2003-11-15 05:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
Post by Phil Scott
Post by Virginia
Tory,
I see you had to silently concede the point I made in my post to you.
The
Post by Phil Scott
Post by Virginia
post I refer to is included below, and to refresh your memory it was
concerning your post incorrectly tying Truth Seeker's arrival with a
post
Post by Phil Scott
of
Post by Virginia
yours that apparently was actually AFTER Truth Seeker's arrival.
No one gives a rats ass about your bogus hair splits ginny.
or the mile long threads of crap proving your hair splits..
snip
Well said. Does she disagree that OSA breaks up families?
I answered your recent post on the subject of OSA and families, and you
didn't respond.


Here it is again for you:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia" <***@icehouse.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Scientology: A Message re Parents & Kids


Tory,


"Magoo" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:***@news2.lightlink.com...

SNIP
Post by Magoo
LET THE KIDS SEE THEIR PARENTS!
You have No idea how many people
~hate~ that you actually break up families.
I know your routine, so don't try the 'other religions practice shunning'
routine. About two come near to what you do, and they also are considered
CULTS.
Also, please don't have the kids/adults now get all filled with lies about
their parents, or half truths/lies, and then have them write some hateful
letter to them, and expect ~anyone~ in their right mind to buy you are a
religion.
Nothing could be more Unreligious that breaking up a family.
This is hurting you probably more
than any other of your sick activities designed to silence others.
So...well let's look at what you are discussing here, in relation to what
George Benavides is doing with my daughter, to try and get to me.


Since George forced my daughter by threat of physical violence as well as
levying actual physical violence on her, to write a document filled with
lies about me, who is her parent, and you are saying that "Scientology" or
rather OSA, is who does this, then...

I guess that would mean that you have to conclude based on your own words on
this matter, that George Benavides works for OSA and the Church of
Scientology, as one of those per you: "...sick activities designed to
silence others." and that's why he forced my daughter to write those lies.

Is that about right?

Well, that would make him an agent (by ONE of the meanings of it), with a
handler in OSA.

Or do you think, that he is an agent in a larger game? Because obviously,
even by your own post, you don't think this type of thing is normal, and you
think it is done to silence people.

So...the 64,000 dollar question would then be...WHO is George's handler?

:-)


Virginia
Post by Magoo
This is hurting you probably more
than any other of your sick activities designed to silence others.
Let the children see their parents....and don't send them to "Ethics",
Black
Post by Magoo
PR Dave, and then have them write some pathetic letter like you have with
Ida, and Vikki, and expect ANY ONE in the real world to believe you are a
religion. That is SO unreligious....it's ridiculous.
Let the children see their parents.
PERIOD. I know they are 'adults' but these people gave birth to them,
loved
Post by Magoo
them, raised them. How dare you slander them and expect ~anyone~ to
welcome
Post by Magoo
you as a religion.
--
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years
Out for 3 years, happily
Declared SP (SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from C of S (Woooo hoooo!) :)
Free at last!!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
===============================


Does she say OSA
Post by Magoo
does not Lie?
That's all I care about. All the rest is hair splitting BS.
You got caught.

Deal with it.

Virginia McClaughry
Post by Magoo
Thanks, Phil.....Have a great nite :)
Tory/Magoo!
Virginia
2003-11-15 03:21:02 UTC
Permalink
I agree, what a move.

Virginia
Post by Phil Scott
Post by Virginia
Tory,
I see you had to silently concede the point I made in my post to you. The
post I refer to is included below, and to refresh your memory it was
concerning your post incorrectly tying Truth Seeker's arrival with a
post
Post by Phil Scott
of
Post by Virginia
yours that apparently was actually AFTER Truth Seeker's arrival.
No one gives a rats ass about your bogus hair splits ginny.
or the mile long threads of crap proving your hair splits..
snip
Truth Seeker
2003-11-15 03:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Tory,
I see you had to silently concede the point I made in my post to you. The
post I refer to is included below, and to refresh your memory it was
concerning your post incorrectly tying Truth Seeker's arrival with a post of
yours that apparently was actually AFTER Truth Seeker's arrival.
In this post "OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later" that you did, there is some
new, careful wording by you. Which again, is after my post to you which you
still haven't answered.
You are now trying to shift the attention OFF of that you screwed up on what
you tried to have believed as to Truth Seeker's arrival.
And...you are now trying to shift time around on that point, to some OTHER
new explanation for Truth Seeker.
Scroll down...
SNIP
Here's an example of some new wording on the matter by Tory.
Post by Magoo
It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn't notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts.
Yes, facts like what is contained in that post I did answering your
allegation re: Truth Seeker's arrival.
Post by Magoo
I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will
agree
Post by Magoo
with them, "The critics are all nuts".
"Scientology" is not confusing anyone. It's a subject.
People in the Church - yes.
You - yes.
Truth Seeker - yes.
But that puts you, right in there amongst those who wish to confuse people
on Scientology itself, and therein lies the crux of the matter.
Again.
Virginia
SNIP
Here's the post I did again, after which Arnie "plonked" me and you now see
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: Tory and "Truth Seeker"
Readers, the following is a post that I just did in response to a post by
Tory, on the thread "Tory Tory Tory....Here's Why".
I am posting this as a seperate thread as well, for any readers who are not
following the abovementioned thread.
Virginia
Post by Magoo
Ever since I, Tory, made a post noting that I had spoken with a Class 8
who
Post by Magoo
told me many people 'in' where done, and were actually reading ARS....ol
"Truthseeker" arrived a few days later here on ARS. (((He/She *may* have
been here previously, but since that time, they've been spreading huge
lies
Post by Magoo
about me consistently)).
Literally within days of that post, they arrived with the 'hat' of
spreading lies about me, in mass.
I always count the days, as I know it takes them a few days to 'get a
program together'. Sure enough, ol toothie arrived with his/her
"Tory....Tory....Tory", about three days after my post re the Class 8, and
hasn't shut up since. Guess they're a littttttttttttttle scared about
those
Post by Magoo
folks "in" who are lurking, huh?
SNIP
I can find no record on google, of any post prior to August 17, 2003, by
Tory concerning a Class 8 saying telling her how many people were "in" that
are done.
Truthseeker's first post that I could find, was August 4, 2003.
Per what Tory says above, that it was about 3 days later. This would
presumably put the post Tory is saying she did, at say between July 29 and
August 4.
I could find no such post.
However, I did find this post, that was AFTER "Truth Seeker" appeared, that
short header only
1.
Subject: Re: LA PICKET>>>>Announcement!
View: Complete Thread (63 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2003-08-17 03:35:52 PST
[excerpted]
Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In".
This person told me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in"
but are really out, and are lurking and reading ARS".
I posted that a few weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to
the day, ever since. They are SO predictable."
The only post that even comes close to discussing the subject of people
[short header only]
Search Result 1
Subject: IF You're Lurking.......
View: Complete Thread (7 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2003-07-14 19:42:03 PST
---
"Hi :) I had a little briefing last night, and found out some cool
stuff. Don't worry, no names were mentioned. However, I did find out WAY
more people were lurking from within than even I thought."
""Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are really out,
and are lurking and reading ARS".
Perhaps the following may shed further light on the subject of the
appearance of "Truth Seeker".
Here is information as to what I found that was occurring on our lines,
(private and public) just prior to the arrival of Truth Seeker.
1.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:52 PM
Subject: From Brad Lisas BF
2.
----- Original Message -----
To: Virginia
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: p. joseph lisa book
1.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:16 AM
Subject: Full Comparison -Technical Briefing 4 transcript
2.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: Full Comparison -Technical Briefing 4 transcript
3.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: CBR Technical Briefing 4 - Significant Alterations
4.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:17 AM
Subject: CBR Technical Briefing 4 - Significant Alterations
--------
If some readers were not aware of it before, these are the first in a long
line of posts proving alterations of materials in the "freezone" and as
such, were VERY significant posts on many levels.
For one thing these first posts proved conclusively that the same thing that
is going on with materials in the taken over Church, is going on in the
"Freezone". Exactly as per Mike's estimate.
The "freezone" and it's propaganda by redefinition of terms to basically
"practice of Scientology outside the Church", has been infiltrated and is
exhibiting the exact same indicators of espionage per HCOPL Counter
Espionage....AS THE CHURCH.
1.
----- Original Message -----
From: Virginia
Cc: Charlene Rhodes
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 2:36 AM
Subject: The real game...(resend to fix typo on aol address)
----------------------
Posts concerning Tory within three days of the arrival to the newsgroups of
1.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: OSA INT ---why do they want to stop these people?
I get e=mails about that almost every day. I just got one
Post by Magoo
today from someone who took my advice, and from that was able to help get
her friend free. That's LIFE!
Tory is promoting her supposed fruitful work in re: Scientology, and
scientologists again, by mentioning these "emails" she receives.
I would ask, from which free throwaway email accounts?
Hotmail, Yahoo? ..etc. etc.
I have more emails from these type of accounts than you can shake a stick
at, and they are so predictable it's really quite pathetic.
Some loose examples of lines used in emails received by both Mike and I
"I am afraid of the COS, so I don't feel safe telling you my name."
"My name is (insert whatever plausible invented name which usually doesn't
match the name of the email address)" For example.."My name is Alice
"I LOVE your website,it's the most FABULOUS WONDERFUL THING I have EVER
seen!!!!! You are FABULOUS! Ron is AWESOME!! Your integrity is TRULY an
INSPIRATION!!!! (lots of capitalized words and exclamation points)"
"I have a question..(insert question that was answered prominently on the
website they just spent 2 paragraphs of glowing compliments about reading)"
"Well, if Ron is REALLY an OT...... (insert whatever the enemy line is
regarding Mike and Ron, usually it will be called channeling, practically in
the same breath of the person saying they are a Scientologist and want to go
OT"
"I have a suggestion....(insert multiple and varied solutions, to a
non-existent problem)
"Your website is very well put together, very well done, but.... just one
thing...(insert whatever standard enemy line is extant at that time about
us)."
"I am a Clear, and I want to progress on the bridge because your website has
rehabilitated me."
"I have only read a Dianetics book (often varied with ARC straightwire or
Purif). (insert numerous examples of obviously being a lot more trained than
just a Dianetics book)"
"I want to help the HASI. Can I come get services?"
"Will you audit me if I pay you?"
"I can't find an auditor, how will I get my CCRD? May I come to you?"
"I have looked at all the squirrels, and you people are simply the BEST!
Will you audit my CCRD?"
"Ralph is crazy.....Tommy sucks.... will you audit me?"
"I have money, I have comm lines, I want to help, I love your work. I can't
tell you my name right now though." (when asked some questions, can't get
their answers straight as to what work it is they love usually, or what
money, or what they brought it up for in the first place, or how they can
help when they can't even say their name)"
There ARE of course, emails that are from real, genuinely good intent,
people. Those are very easy to differentiate. I think that one part of why
this whole charade of bogus emails and people is done with us at least, is
to try and get the person to not be able to tell the real, from the
invented. In other words, get the person to think there is "no one" real,
and hopefully make it so when a real one does come, they will treat it as
one of the "trolls". It's a psy-op basically.
Tory promotes her alleged success, quite often actually, on what EMAILS she
gets.
Like I said....
Hotmail, or yahoo?
Virginia
--
2.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Two More Free.....the "Wins" just keep on Comin ,,,,:)
Tory,
Hotmail, or Yahoo?
Virginia
[Question is related to a post I did another thread where Tory is mentioning
emails she receives. (included below)]
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: OSA INT ---why do they want to stop these people?
Tory is promoting her supposed fruitful work in re: Scientology, and
scientologists again, by mentioning these "emails" she receives.
I would ask, from which free throwaway email accounts?
Hotmail, Yahoo? ..etc. etc.
I have more emails from these type of accounts than you can shake a stick
at, and they are so predictable it's really quite pathetic.
Some loose examples of lines used in emails received by both Mike and I
"I am afraid of the COS, so I don't feel safe telling you my name."
"My name is (insert whatever plausible invented name which usually doesn't
match the name of the email address)" For example.."My name is Alice
"I LOVE your website,it's the most FABULOUS WONDERFUL THING I have EVER
seen!!!!! You are FABULOUS! Ron is AWESOME!! Your integrity is TRULY an
INSPIRATION!!!! (lots of capitalized words and exclamation points)"
"I have a question..(insert question that was answered prominently on the
website they just spent 2 paragraphs of glowing compliments about reading)"
"Well, if Ron is REALLY an OT...... (insert whatever the enemy line is
regarding Mike and Ron, usually it will be called channeling, practically in
the same breath of the person saying they are a Scientologist and want to go
OT"
"I have a suggestion....(insert multiple and varied solutions, to a
non-existent problem)
"Your website is very well put together, very well done, but.... just one
thing...(insert whatever standard enemy line is extant at that time about
us)."
"I am a Clear, and I want to progress on the bridge because your website has
rehabilitated me."
"I have only read a Dianetics book (often varied with ARC straightwire or
Purif). (insert numerous examples of obviously being a lot more trained than
just a Dianetics book)"
"I want to help the HASI. Can I come get services?"
"Will you audit me if I pay you?"
"I can't find an auditor, how will I get my CCRD? May I come to you?"
"I have looked at all the squirrels, and you people are simply the BEST!
Will you audit my CCRD?"
"Ralph is crazy.....Tommy sucks.... will you audit me?"
"I have money, I have comm lines, I want to help, I love your work. I can't
tell you my name right now though." (when asked some questions, can't get
their answers straight as to what work it is they love usually, or what
money, or what they brought it up for in the first place, or how they can
help when they can't even say their name)"
There ARE of course, emails that are from real, genuinely good intent,
people. Those are very easy to differentiate. I think that one part of why
this whole charade of bogus emails and people is done with us at least, is
to try and get the person to not be able to tell the real, from the
invented. In other words, get the person to think there is "no one" real,
and hopefully make it so when a real one does come, they will treat it as
one of the "trolls". It's a psy-op basically.
Tory promotes her alleged success, quite often actually, on what EMAILS she
gets.
Like I said....
Hotmail, or yahoo?
Virginia
=================================
Post by Magoo
Dear Tory
I originally contacted you last Christmas (2002) about a friend of mine
and
Post by Magoo
long time scientologist who had joined the Sea Org. At the time that she
signed I was also a Scientologist and I was very proud that she was
willing
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
to make that commitment to "clear the planet". Shortly thereafter,
realizing that she was miserable, I started looking at why she might be
miserable and found myself in a sea of "entheta" (their word, NOT mine) on
the internet.
Needless to say I was amazed at what I found. I read everything and
anything I could find, both pro and con, so that I would be able to make
an
Post by Magoo
informed decision about Scientology. I was amazed that I had not thought
to
Post by Magoo
do this before - I was just willing to believe all that they told me as
"truth".
Anyway, the reason that I am writing to you today is that I wanted to
thank
Post by Magoo
you for some advice that you had given me. You told me that I needed to
go
Post by Magoo
to LA and try to meet with my friend and explain to her what I had found.
But the most important piece of advice that you gave me was (tip removed
so
Post by Magoo
OSA will not use it against people). I made the trip to LA (and it was a
nice change from _______ ) and met with my friend - although I didn't tell
her all the "stuff" I had found on the 'net, I worked it a bit
differently.
Post by Magoo
At the time it didn't seem to make much difference, she still went back to
base and was still miserable.
But, a few months ago, she finally routed out! And, it was all because I
followed your good advice and went to LA to see her - upon seeing me, she
realized that she wasn't happy in the SO and wanted out! I have been
showing her all that I have discovered and asked her to read it and show
me
Post by Magoo
otherwise!
Although I post rarely to ARS, I lurk daily, and I appreciate all that you
and others post, the links that you provide and the help that you all
extend
Post by Magoo
to all!
Thank you for all of your time and effort - without your stories and
postings, I would still be following the Scn path! And thank you for your
help in my personal situation - its been greatly appreciated!
XXXXXX
((Name withheld to protect the innocent))
My deepest Congratulations to both of these people for their
courage to do what they really want!
Love to all :)
Tory/Magoo~~dancing in the moonlight~
In for 30 years
Out for 3 years
SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster
Free at LAST!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
:)
----------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Virginia
Cc: Charlene Rhodes
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:07 AM
Subject: Fw: Perhaps love will prevail
--------
2. Posts concerning Tory within 1 day of "Truth Seeker" arrival.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: Two More Free.....the "Wins" just keep on Comin ,,,,:)
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Tory,
Hotmail, or Yahoo?
Virginia
As if I'm going to tell you.
Why not?
These are very ~real~ people, with real
Post by Magoo
concerns about people (from the Church <gack>of Scientology) tracking them
down.
Saying if the emails are from Hotmail, Yahoo, or other assorted throwaway
type accounts, doesn't say their NAME nor reveal their whereabouts, by any
stretch of the imagination.
It may be a bit forward, but perhaps your attempt to get around the question
by throwing up a point that is actually disrelated, is because the emails
ARE from those kind of email accounts.
Post by Magoo
I understand you don't hear from real people who have woken up and are
leaving "The Church of Scientology"
On what basis, and from whom, do you form this understanding?
The problem with backchannel communications, emails from throwaway accounts
etc, is that lots of people get suckered by what they "want to hear".
I really hope that's not the sources where you formed YOUR understanding
from.
Post by Magoo
(what you proposed originally you were
against, and now by most posts, seem to be backing up).
I'm sorry Tory, but what you said above, is a perfect example of false
generalities intended to cause trouble, no matter how carefully you are
wording it.
I have not changed my position regarding the taken over "Church of
Scientology". More particularly, those involved with, and perpetrating what
you now see posing as the "Church of Scientology".
I have not changed my position regarding true, and actual Scientology, nor
have I ceased being a Scientologist.
So now, you try and basically lie, and somewhat indirectly say that I am
now "backing up" the taken over Church because I strongly support
Scientology itself? The fact that you would do that, or even try to do that,
reeks of desperation.
Why are you so afraid of my posts, that you would even try to spin such a
departure from the truth?
Seriously, at least some people in that same OSA you worked for, are
probably cracking up left and right over the idiocy of you trying to pass
that off as any kind of truth.
There have been NUMEROUS times that the lie that I "am OSA" has been posted
by others. Other lies along a similar line that have been posted about me
are that I "worked in OSA" or that I am "Ex-GO" or that I am "EX-USGO".
Now with you, it's the truth to say that you worked for OSA.
That's kind of interesting actually, I, who never worked for OSA, get lied
about on that point frequently, and you who DID work for OSA, don't.
Post by Magoo
Go figure!
Sorry that's the best you can do, Virginia. You shant be getting any
more
Post by Magoo
details from me, and that's simply to protect the innoncent.
No it's not, as I proved above. Since there's probably at LEAST 200,000 plus
people with yahoo and hotmail etc. accounts, I think it's pretty clear that
you're lying when you say you didn't answer because of "protecting the
innocent".
I didn't ask for their headers or their names. I asked..
Hotmail, or Yahoo etc.?
What you
Post by Magoo
believe is not my concern. Who have you helped lately?
I think you doth protest too much, and what I state as fact, IS most
definitely your concern. Apparently so much so, that you will start trying
to spin lies about what I am doing, or not doing.
So, stop doing that if you don't like having it pointed out. That's not too
difficult to figure out.
But...now to your question you asked above.
I certainly hope you aren't now asking ME for names, because that would be
awfully double-standardish of you.
Besides which, who said I ever stopped helping people that are real, and
sincere? Certainly not I.
You know, anyone can "say" anything, but that doesn't make it true.
Food for thought.
Virginia
Post by Magoo
Tory/Magoo!
Post by Virginia
[Question is related to a post I did another thread where Tory is
mentioning
Post by Virginia
emails she receives. (included below)]
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: OSA INT ---why do they want to stop these people?
Tory is promoting her supposed fruitful work in re: Scientology, and
scientologists again, by mentioning these "emails" she receives.
I would ask, from which free throwaway email accounts?
Hotmail, Yahoo? ..etc. etc.
V's intent: Make nothing of it
I get my share of trolling emails, but a lot are very very real.
Now what does that REALITY mean?
In Scientology REALITY is described as AGREEMENT.
As long all those waiting for their shiny new cars are in AGREEMENT
that they will, after the next secret level atain "OT" then the money
from rubes will continue to come in, right?
The REALITY that Virginia seeks to make nothing of, is the REALITY and
you know, there are more of them than there are Scientologists...
The Reality is that Scientology produced NOTHING.
The real meaning of 8008 ( as described by Hubbard )
is the Infinity of the person who comes into scientology
is reduced to ZERO
and the ZERO that was L Ron Hubbard the LOSER, is increased to
Infinity. (an infinity of lawyers, PI's, devoted rubes and what was
once YOUR money )
Arnie Lerma
Ferengi + Borg = Scientology
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for
the mind
http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with
no
Post by Magoo
HEAD"
----------
2. Emails within 1 day of "Truth Seeker" arrival.
----- Original Message -----
From: Virginia
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:13 PM
Subject: Fw: Perhaps love will prevail
=================================================
"Truth Seeker" arrives.
truthseeker dns for first post.
09/29/03 21:58:45 dns 67.72.171.207
nslookup 67.72.171.207
Canonical name: dialup-67.72.171.207.Dial1.Washington1.Level3.net
67.72.171.207
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Is Spiritual growth a Mechanical process? (word wrap fix)
Date: 4 Aug 2003 02:05:02 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Lines: 65
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.72.171.207
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1059987903 30393 127.0.0.1 (4 Aug 2003
09:05:03 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2003 09:05:03 GMT
[excerpted]
The following is of my own opinion. I'm not advocating anybody leaving
Scientology or joining. These are just some coginitions that have been
comming up in my mind that I've wanted to share and discuss with
others, critics, scientologist, OSA and the world. This is my first
post in this newsgroup.
The basis, again, in my opinion, of Dianetics and Scientology is
the "Process" or processing. It's my firm believe now that people grow
when they get good and ready to grow and it's not a mechanical
process.
----
[short header only]
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: Attention: Andrew Robertson
IP used: 67.201.23.22
09/29/03 23:36:39 dns 67.201.23.22
nslookup 67.201.23.22
Canonical name: 1Cust22.tnt1.salisbury.md.da.uu.net
67.201.23.22
[short headers only]
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 2:05 AM
Subject: Techniques used by Scientology to "Handle" critics on this
newsgroup
IP used: 67.201.23.148
Note that the email address presented by "Truth Seeker" changed on the 28th,
and the very next day, "Truth Seeker" begins to attempt to position me as
being "in agreement" with "Truth Seeker" in regards to Tory. Note the
subject title. This is observed to be an attempted positioning by "Truth
Seeker" that "because" of "Truth Seeker" posts I "saw through Tory's vale of
lies.
This implication, or any statement along these lines, is a lie.
Tory and I were already having posting cycles, (most of which Tory had begun
running away from) PRIOR to the arrival of the "Truth Seeker" posting
identity.
[short headers only]
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:54 PM
Subject: Virginia Saw Through Tory's Vale of Lies! - Take a Look!
IP used: 67.201.23.209
A post that I did within an hour of "Truth Seeker"'s attempted positioning
of me post.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:46 PM
Subject: REPOST: A blast from the past - Regarding SP Declares
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:49 PM
Subject: Steps Scientology is taking to stop real criticism - Reposted
09/30/03
IP used: 67.201.23.209
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:51 PM
Subject: REPOST: More blasts from the past - Magoo in 2000
"Truth Seeker" comes directly onto one of my originated threads to further
position myself and the posting identity "Truth Seeker" as aligned or "in
agreement".
In vector analysis, this is what is known as a parallel vector.
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: REPOST: A blast from the past - Regarding SP Declares
IP used 67.201.23.31
================================================
Virginia
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)





Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Virginia
2003-11-15 05:06:57 UTC
Permalink
"Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@News.Individual.NET...


SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.

First the ack of the ack.

Truth Seeker,

Thank you.

Suggested points of correction:

About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather obscene
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are simply
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.

I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but start
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known to
do.

You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/emails
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't read all of Tory's
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.

Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any goal
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.

Understood?

Virginia McClaughry
Post by Truth Seeker
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Rookie1122Rk
2003-11-15 05:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
Date: 11/14/2003 9:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Can you explain what Tory did that was wrong? It was impossible to understand
your long thread. Not very decipherable.

Regards
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather obscene
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are simply
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but start
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known to
do.
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/emails
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't read all of Tory's
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any goal
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Understood?
Virginia McClaughry
Virginia
2003-11-15 07:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Just take your time and read one thing, understand it, then read the next.

Virginia McClaughry
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Subject: Re: OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
Date: 11/14/2003 9:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Can you explain what Tory did that was wrong? It was impossible to understand
your long thread. Not very decipherable.
Regards
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather obscene
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are simply
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but start
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known to
do.
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/emails
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't read all of Tory's
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any goal
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Understood?
Virginia McClaughry
Magoo
2003-11-15 09:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Subject: Re: OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
Date: 11/14/2003 9:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Can you explain what Tory did that was wrong? It was impossible to understand
your long thread. Not very decipherable.
Regards
Thank you....I agree and is the same reason I've not responded.
It comes under "Say what?" in my book.
Also, Virginia I'm sorry to say still seems to be trying to run her own
private "Investigation"....with what purpose, I'm not sure.

Just cut to the chase, do you know OSA, and "truthseeker" spreads lies or
not? Switching off of that topic, onto you cannot find what day I stated
what ... on Google seems a bit odd to me.

I *won't* be spending time explaining it to you, Virginia.
Read it.....and if you feel I'm wrong, you will say so, this I know.
Sorry you missed the message while trying so hard to prove your point,
whatever it was.

Tory/Magoo!
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather obscene
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are simply
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but start
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known to
do.
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/emails
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't read all of Tory's
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any goal
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Understood?
Virginia McClaughry
Susan
2003-11-15 10:22:19 UTC
Permalink
Rookie1122Rk wrote:
|| Subject: Re: OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
|| From: "Virginia" ***@icehouse.net
|| Date: 11/14/2003 9:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
|| Message-id: <***@news2.lightlink.com>
||
||
|| "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
|| news:***@News.Individual.NET...
||
||
|| SNIP
||
||
||| I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping
||| to bring out the truth. :-)
|
| Can you explain what Tory did that was wrong? It was impossible to
| understand your long thread. Not very decipherable.

Rookie,

This is where I find killfiles to be really useful. They love OSAbots,
trolls, etc. Feed yours, I bet you'll be glad you did ;-)

Susan

|
| Regards
|
|
|
||
|| Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to
|| generate amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I
|| will ack the ack anyway, because I have a couple things I want to
|| say to whoever is back of the posting identity Truth Seeker,
|| concerning Tory.
||
|| First the ack of the ack.
||
|| Truth Seeker,
||
|| Thank you.
||
|| Suggested points of correction:
||
|| About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your
|| posts about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your
|| rather obscene and insulting name-calling of her, is completely
|| unnecessary. You are simply making it quite easy for her to DA you
|| because of those two points.
||
|| I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with
|| but start calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she
|| has been known to do.
||
|| You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your
|| posts/emails to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't
|| read all of Tory's points, but I do know the two above have been
|| present on more than one occasion in your posts.
||
|| Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with
|| any goal or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc.
|| etc, Scientology the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance,
|| it seems a lot of your posts do go in that direction.
||
|| Understood?
||
|| Virginia McClaughry
Rookie1122Rk
2003-11-15 19:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
Date: 11/15/2003 2:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
|| Subject: Re: OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
|| Date: 11/14/2003 9:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
||
||
||
||
|| SNIP
||
||
||| I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping
||| to bring out the truth. :-)
|
| Can you explain what Tory did that was wrong? It was impossible to
| understand your long thread. Not very decipherable.
Rookie,
This is where I find killfiles to be really useful. They love OSAbots,
trolls, etc. Feed yours, I bet you'll be glad you did ;-)
Susan
Thanks Susan. I am not going to killfile her. I am not going to read that
long post either. Not worth my time.

Regards
|
| Regards
|
|
|
||
|| Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to
|| generate amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I
|| will ack the ack anyway, because I have a couple things I want to
|| say to whoever is back of the posting identity Truth Seeker,
|| concerning Tory.
||
|| First the ack of the ack.
||
|| Truth Seeker,
||
|| Thank you.
||
||
|| About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your
|| posts about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your
|| rather obscene and insulting name-calling of her, is completely
|| unnecessary. You are simply making it quite easy for her to DA you
|| because of those two points.
||
|| I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with
|| but start calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she
|| has been known to do.
||
|| You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your
|| posts/emails to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't
|| read all of Tory's points, but I do know the two above have been
|| present on more than one occasion in your posts.
||
|| Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with
|| any goal or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc.
|| etc, Scientology the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance,
|| it seems a lot of your posts do go in that direction.
||
|| Understood?
||
|| Virginia McClaughry
Truth Seeker
2003-11-17 04:19:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:22:19 GMT, "Susan"
Post by Susan
This is where I find killfiles to be really useful. They love OSAbots,
trolls, etc. Feed yours, I bet you'll be glad you did ;-)
Susan
Killfiles Susan? Wouldn't want anybody to read any REAL criticism
of the church, right? One less person Scientology can sell books,
courses and lectures to.




Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
2003-11-15 13:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Subject: Re: OSA 101 Update: 3 Years Later
Date: 11/14/2003 9:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Can you explain what Tory did that was wrong? It was impossible to understand
your long thread. Not very decipherable.
Regards
Hubbard went on for 15 million words

You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.

but Scientology CAN help you with that:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net

Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity

Arnie Lerma


I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
Support http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
OT III
2003-11-15 21:24:26 UTC
Permalink
"arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com" <***@nospam.bellatlantic.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

Hubbard went on for 15 million words

You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.

but Scientology CAN help you with that:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net

Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity

Arnie Lerma

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Arnie:

Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.

An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.

Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?

OT III
Magoo
2003-11-16 00:46:43 UTC
Permalink
"OT III" <E-***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:HZidnVJWYuD9BCuiRVn-***@comcast.com...
"arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com" <***@nospam.bellatlantic.net> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...

Hubbard went on for 15 million words

You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.

but Scientology CAN help you with that:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net

Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity

Arnie Lerma

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Arnie:

Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.

An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.

Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?

OT III

Hey pal, where's YOUR Web site?
So far I see Arnie posting people's life stories, including my OSA 101
Story, and tons of other facts C of $ doesn't want people to know.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
for those who missed the info about the Top Secret OSA International
Internet Mafia I assisted briefly, until I really connected the dots,
figured out what they were ~really~ doing (Stopping Free Speech) and left
C of $ Forever.

You complaining about Arnie's search engine and calling him names is about
as helpful as
some kid pounding drums in front of the Red Cross, complaining because their
Search engine isn't fast enough. (And no, I'm ~not~saying Arnie =Red
Cross....it's an analogy).

Let's see your Web site first.....and even if it is THE spiffiest one in the
world, it takes all kinds to expose this cult. Every thing posted is on the
Internet for good.
I thank Arnie and the many others who DO take the time to create these Web
sites. People use them daily.

November is a month to make sure to give thanks. I suggest you try it :)

All the best...............

Tory/Magoo~in the light~
OT III
2003-11-16 01:19:13 UTC
Permalink
"Magoo" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:***@news2.lightlink.com...

"OT III" <E-***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:HZidnVJWYuD9BCuiRVn-***@comcast.com...
"arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com" <***@nospam.bellatlantic.net> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...

Hubbard went on for 15 million words

You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.

but Scientology CAN help you with that:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net

Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity

Arnie Lerma

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Arnie:

Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.

An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.

Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?

OT III

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey pal, where's YOUR Web site?

Let's see your Web site first

I thank Arnie and the many others who DO take the time to create these Web
sites. People use them daily.

Tory/Magoo

++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Tory/Magoo:

My OWN Personal website is PRIVATE, CONFIDENTIAL and
available only to trusted friends, family and business associates, who
would like to view it, link to it, or post in the guestbook there.

My OWN Personal website has NOTHING whatsoever to do with
the "religion" of Scientology. It is unlikely even that my own
web pages would be of any interest to you in any capacity as they
contain personal information about me and my FRIENDS I love.

Regarding your comment on Arnie's website, is EXACTLY why it
is important to have a functional search button to help visitors find
the kind of VITAL information YOU CLAIM is posted there.

I really do not see what you are driving at.

OT III
Magoo
2003-11-16 01:36:34 UTC
Permalink
"OT III" <E-***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Et-dnVVkNZT7TSuiRVn-***@comcast.com...

"Magoo" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:***@news2.lightlink.com...

"OT III" <E-***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:HZidnVJWYuD9BCuiRVn-***@comcast.com...
"arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com" <***@nospam.bellatlantic.net> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...

Hubbard went on for 15 million words

You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.

but Scientology CAN help you with that:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net

Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity

Arnie Lerma

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Arnie:

Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.

An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.

Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?

OT III

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey pal, where's YOUR Web site?

Let's see your Web site first

I thank Arnie and the many others who DO take the time to create these Web
sites. People use them daily.

Tory/Magoo

++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Tory/Magoo:

My OWN Personal website is PRIVATE, CONFIDENTIAL and
available only to trusted friends, family and business associates, who
would like to view it, link to it, or post in the guestbook there.

My OWN Personal website has NOTHING whatsoever to do with
the "religion" of Scientology. It is unlikely even that my own
web pages would be of any interest to you in any capacity as they
contain personal information about me and my FRIENDS I love.

Regarding your comment on Arnie's website, is EXACTLY why it
is important to have a functional search button to help visitors find
the kind of VITAL information YOU CLAIM is posted there.

I really do not see what you are driving at.

OT III

I don't disagree that if his search button isn't working, it would be a good
idea to fix it. It was how you said it that seemed a bit odd.

I don't care about your personal Web site, I meant one that exposes the
abuses posted about here, re Scientology. He has one. A good one.

Why don't you send him some suggestions?

Best

Tory/Magoo~
OT III
2003-11-16 01:52:17 UTC
Permalink
"Magoo" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:***@news2.lightlink.com...

"OT III" <E-***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Et-dnVVkNZT7TSuiRVn-***@comcast.com...

"Magoo" <***@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:***@news2.lightlink.com...

"OT III" <E-***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:HZidnVJWYuD9BCuiRVn-***@comcast.com...
"arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com" <***@nospam.bellatlantic.net> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...

Hubbard went on for 15 million words

You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.

but Scientology CAN help you with that:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net

Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity

Arnie Lerma

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Arnie:

Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.

An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.

Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?

OT III

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey pal, where's YOUR Web site?

Let's see your Web site first

I thank Arnie and the many others who DO take the time to create these Web
sites. People use them daily.

Tory/Magoo

++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Tory/Magoo:

My OWN Personal website is PRIVATE, CONFIDENTIAL and
available only to trusted friends, family and business associates, who
would like to view it, link to it, or post in the guestbook there.

My OWN Personal website has NOTHING whatsoever to do with
the "religion" of Scientology. It is unlikely even that my own
web pages would be of any interest to you in any capacity as they
contain personal information about me and my FRIENDS I love.

Regarding your comment on Arnie's website, is EXACTLY why it
is important to have a functional search button to help visitors find
the kind of VITAL information YOU CLAIM is posted there.

I really do not see what you are driving at.

OT III

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't disagree that if his search button isn't working, it would be a good
idea to fix it. It was how you said it that seemed a bit odd.

I don't care about your personal Web site, I meant one that exposes the
abuses posted about here, re Scientology. He has one. A good one.

Why don't you send him some suggestions?

Best

Tory/Magoo

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Tory/Magoo:

The thought HAD entered my mind about talking to Arnie about
fixing his search button.

The thought also entered my mind of Arnie once calling
me a "waste of internet bandwidth".

Putting up a Scientology critical site, would not do me
any good in getting my point across further, as I am only
opposed to those "Scientologists" whose business it is
to cheat, exploit and attempt to corrupt the morals of others.

It is more of a personal vendetta rather than a corporate one.
In case you have not heard yet (SMILE) which I doubt, my old
girlfriend C.C. introduced me to the phrase "Paybacks are a
bitch", at a very early age.

OT III
Virginia
2003-11-16 04:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
Hubbard went on for 15 million words
You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity
Arnie Lerma
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.
An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.
Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?
OT III
Hey pal, where's YOUR Web site?
So far I see Arnie posting people's life stories, including my OSA 101
Story, and tons of other facts C of $ doesn't want people to know.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
for those who missed the info about the Top Secret OSA International
Internet Mafia I assisted briefly, until I really connected the dots,
figured out what they were ~really~ doing (Stopping Free Speech) and left
C of $ Forever.
You complaining about Arnie's search engine and calling him names is about
as helpful as
some kid pounding drums in front of the Red Cross, complaining because their
Search engine isn't fast enough. (And no, I'm ~not~saying Arnie =Red
Cross....it's an analogy).
Let's see your Web site first.....and even if it is THE spiffiest one in the
world, it takes all kinds to expose this cult. Every thing posted is on the
Internet for good.
I thank Arnie and the many others who DO take the time to create these Web
sites. People use them daily.
November is a month to make sure to give thanks. I suggest you try it :)
All the best...............
Tory/Magoo~in the light~
What names Tory?

I don't see this poster calling Arnie any names in this post.

Virginia
Magoo
2003-11-16 10:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
Hubbard went on for 15 million words
You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity
Arnie Lerma
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.
An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.
Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?
OT III
Hey pal, where's YOUR Web site?
So far I see Arnie posting people's life stories, including my OSA 101
Story, and tons of other facts C of $ doesn't want people to know.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
for those who missed the info about the Top Secret OSA International
Internet Mafia I assisted briefly, until I really connected the dots,
figured out what they were ~really~ doing (Stopping Free Speech) and left
C of $ Forever.
You complaining about Arnie's search engine and calling him names is about
as helpful as
some kid pounding drums in front of the Red Cross, complaining because
their
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
Search engine isn't fast enough. (And no, I'm ~not~saying Arnie =Red
Cross....it's an analogy).
Let's see your Web site first.....and even if it is THE spiffiest one in
the
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
world, it takes all kinds to expose this cult. Every thing posted is on
the
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
Internet for good.
I thank Arnie and the many others who DO take the time to create these Web
sites. People use them daily.
November is a month to make sure to give thanks. I suggest you try it :)
All the best...............
Tory/Magoo~in the light~
What names Tory?
I don't see this poster calling Arnie any names in this post.
Virginia
Woman...what the Hell are you up to? This is flat out Dev-T to use your
lingo. READ>>>>>before you post, ok?
Here's what he said:
"Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?"

Arnie is FAR from being a retiring critic. Far from it.

There was the earlier paragraph that was a bit odd to, but I'll let you
scroll up and read that.

Tory/Magoo!
Virginia
2003-11-16 23:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
in
Post by Virginia
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
Hubbard went on for 15 million words
You arn't supposed to figure out
that the Emperor(REALLY) has no clothes
until after you are dead.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Folks who in fact, have no point,
have no choice but to
obfuscate via verbosity
Arnie Lerma
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Too bad you cannot fix the search button on your website
since the Spring of 2003 to help people learn some of the
facts you have posted about L. Ron Hubbard and the
Church of Scientology.
An odd form of negligence on your part which does not
lend you too much credibility.
Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?
Even with the Lisa McPherson Anniversary picket
coming up at Flag this year?
OT III
Hey pal, where's YOUR Web site?
So far I see Arnie posting people's life stories, including my OSA 101
Story, and tons of other facts C of $ doesn't want people to know.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
for those who missed the info about the Top Secret OSA International
Internet Mafia I assisted briefly, until I really connected the dots,
figured out what they were ~really~ doing (Stopping Free Speech) and
left
Post by Virginia
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
C of $ Forever.
You complaining about Arnie's search engine and calling him names is
about
Post by Virginia
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
as helpful as
some kid pounding drums in front of the Red Cross, complaining because
their
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
Search engine isn't fast enough. (And no, I'm ~not~saying Arnie =Red
Cross....it's an analogy).
Let's see your Web site first.....and even if it is THE spiffiest one in
the
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
world, it takes all kinds to expose this cult. Every thing posted is on
the
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
Internet for good.
I thank Arnie and the many others who DO take the time to create these
Web
Post by Virginia
Post by arnie lerma - www.lermanet.com
sites. People use them daily.
November is a month to make sure to give thanks. I suggest you try it :)
All the best...............
Tory/Magoo~in the light~
What names Tory?
I don't see this poster calling Arnie any names in this post.
Virginia
Woman...what the Hell are you up to? This is flat out Dev-T to use your
lingo. READ>>>>>before you post, ok?
"Or maybe you are a "retiring" critic these days instead?"
I saw that, and your implications that I would not read the post I am asking
about, is a little desperate on your part.

But....you actually consider that calling Arnie names? Well, ok, but that's
a little weak Tory.

Not quite the same as you calling people "Morons", or now is it? Or Truth
Seeker calling you "droopy"? Or you calling me the "Queen of the Freezone",
or "crazy" etc. etc.

The kind of namecalling I was referring to, is along those lines. In other
words quite a bit more vicious stuff.

I know you know the difference. It's the vicious stuff that's the problem
that needs correcting, IMO.


Virginia
Post by Magoo
Arnie is FAR from being a retiring critic. Far from it.
There was the earlier paragraph that was a bit odd to, but I'll let you
scroll up and read that.
Tory/Magoo!
Magoo
2003-11-15 10:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather obscene
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are simply
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Good suggestion. For the record,
I am not trying to "DA" anyone. I am saying this person is LYING about me,
over and over and refuses to post ANY facts, or answer any questions.

If that "DA's" him/her...so be it. The truth is, they really should stop
lying. It's stupid, and SHOWS what lying bigots they really are.
Post by Virginia
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but start
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known to
do.
I have not called you names... at least in a year or so. I might have one or
two years ago, but lets stick with now, ok? I don't spend time answering
your 'investigations'....if they are odd questions that seem to take
forever, that are about whether I posted on Sunday or monday...totally
leaving out the POINTS I posted about. Sorry, it comes under "Distraction"
and I won't do it, whether you mean it as such or not.
Post by Virginia
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/email
s
Post by Virginia
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum.
I agree here fully, but you know he/she will not. They can't! They're flat
out lies.

I haven't read all of Tory's
Post by Virginia
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any goal
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Are you still interested in exposing the abuses of "The Church of
Scientology"? Just curious.
Post by Virginia
Understood?
Well, I've heard what you said.
I *think* I get it, but when I first met you, you were quite interested in
exposing the lies and frauds connected with C of S, or so I thought. Now
you seem to be mostly posting about critics of
C of S. What changed?

Tory/Magoo!
Post by Virginia
Virginia McClaughry
Post by Truth Seeker
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Virginia
2003-11-15 23:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather
obscene
Post by Virginia
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are
simply
Post by Virginia
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Good suggestion.
Thank you.

For the record,
Post by Virginia
I am not trying to "DA" anyone. I am saying this person is LYING about me,
over and over and refuses to post ANY facts, or answer any questions.
That is a part of trying to DA. The problem is, you often don't actually
take the lying point and handle it correctly.

So, you are DAing, you just aren't doing it very well.

DAing is NOT a "bad thing". Just because OSA, the taken over Church crew,
and their counterparts both within the critics AND the "freezone" do it
every which way but right, doesn't make the actual action of how to handle a
lie etc, WRONG.

What I have seen OSA, Ralph Hilton, BB, April Buchanan, Arnie, you, etc. do,
is several things that are ineffective against the full truth.

I'll cover some of them. You take something that is a specific, then turn it
into a generality, which is too easy to DA so then you end up making
yourselves look like idiots, next option is you yammer on without putting
ANY true, full specifics, just say, "you lie", or whatever, which again
isn't so much a bad thing by itself, but it is when you don't ever truly
take the time to effectively handle it, next option is you take an actual
lie, then lie about that in response, or use a partial lie etc., which
again, makes you look like idiots.

Look, you DO have examples where something is wrong. For example, the Santa
chair thing, BUT, you don't even handle THAT right.

First of all, you HAD to know that was their property. Isn't that correct?
(do correct me if I'm wrong on THAT point). Assuming that is correct, then
second of all, since you knew that, you went and sat in the chair anyway,
and were surprised that they seized on that tiny violation that YOU handed
them?

Geez Tory, you know some of these guys are seriously motivator hungry, so
why did you give them one? And not only that, one they could try and use in
COURT?

Ok, so IF you were going to effectively DA what happened there, the first
thing you would have to do is have a CLEAN statement of that you knew it,
(which means that part of what you say can have no it's THEIR FAULT in it)
and the fact that you knew it, and then you did it anyway.

AFTER that, then you can have the strength of position to address what THEY
did.

Do you understand?

Another thing, is this whole OSA and the posting names thing. You STILL
STILL STILL do not put really damaging to their lying game that way, full
specifics there.

Why?

I find you to be overall an exceedingly ineffective critic for the most
part, of the taken over Church of Scientology, and it's much larger game it
is part and parcel of.

The ONLY people you have any effectiveness with, are people who don't REALLY
want to be, or aren't (never were) Scientologists.

I think it's disgusting that that's what you WANT to be effective at,
achieving the result of not becoming a scientologist, or becoming an
ex-scientologist, or becoming a "freezoner", etc.

These are not viable options and are just more part of the overall plan to
ruin Scientology itself.
Post by Virginia
If that "DA's" him/her...so be it. The truth is, they really should stop
lying.
Agreed.
Post by Virginia
It's stupid, and SHOWS what lying bigots they really are.
Well, yes, but you need to knock off any lying or INACCURACIES as well, and
quit the name-calling your own self.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but
start
Post by Virginia
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known
to
Post by Virginia
do.
I have not called you names... at least in a year or so. I might have one or
two years ago, but lets stick with now, ok?
That's not true Tory. See what I mean?

If I go bring up a post where you did it, and it's definitely NOT two years
ago, or even one year ago, now you just did what you are supposedly so
pissed at OSA and Truth Seeker for doing. You would then be seen to have
acted like in your own words a "lying bigot" because you were pissed at me.

Before you speak and state things, do you even bother to find out the truth,
for example in this case, that would be WHEN did you last in any way insult
me with some sort of name or label?

No, you didn't, or you wouldn't have shot yourself in the foot with the
above.

And, I DO see that you haven't done it in THIS post, that is true, but don't
try and alter the truth and say it was one or two years ago was the last
time.


I don't spend time answering
Post by Virginia
your 'investigations'....
Why can't you answer my posts?

if they are odd questions that seem to take
Post by Virginia
forever,
that are about whether I posted on Sunday or monday...totally
Post by Virginia
leaving out the POINTS I posted about.
You sure about that Tory?

Sorry, it comes under "Distraction"
Post by Virginia
and I won't do it, whether you mean it as such or not.
You won't correct your own untruths, or altered truths, that get proven as
such?

You're that callous about the truth when it comes to you, but when Truth
Seeker does it oh well that's DIFFERENT, they are a "lying bigot"?

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/email
s
Post by Virginia
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum.
I agree here fully, but you know he/she will not. They can't! They're flat
out lies.
That's not the complete concept of what correct means there.

Of course they can correct it. Say it's a lie, why they did it, and
apologize, and if they are really going the other direction, put the truth
there.

I bet you would consider that most definitely a correction, yes?
Post by Virginia
I haven't read all of Tory's
Post by Virginia
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any
goal
Post by Virginia
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Are you still interested in exposing the abuses of "The Church of
Scientology"?
Absolutely.

But those that are behind the taken over "Church of Scientology", their
reach extends well out into the "freezone", the "critics", etc.

Are you not interested in exposing ALL the activities , or not?

I am.
Post by Virginia
Just curious.
So am I. Difference is, my curiousity is not limited where others
desperately WANT it to be.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Understood?
Well, I've heard what you said.
I *think* I get it, but when I first met you, you were quite interested in
exposing the lies and frauds connected with C of S, or so I thought.
I think I answered this above, but let me know if you feel I didn't, or have
further questions.

Now
Post by Virginia
you seem to be mostly posting about critics of
C of S. What changed?
Well, I can see how it could seem that way, but that's actually not entirely
accurate.

As to what changed?

I expanded my curiosity to fit the actual size of the situation.

I suggest you do the same.

Virginia
Post by Virginia
Tory/Magoo!
Post by Virginia
Virginia McClaughry
Post by Truth Seeker
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Magoo
2003-11-16 01:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to
generate
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is
back
Post by Virginia
of
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your
posts
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather
obscene
Post by Virginia
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are
simply
Post by Virginia
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Good suggestion.
Thank you.
For the record,
Post by Virginia
I am not trying to "DA" anyone. I am saying this person is LYING about me,
over and over and refuses to post ANY facts, or answer any questions.
That is a part of trying to DA. The problem is, you often don't actually
take the lying point and handle it correctly.
So, you are DAing, you just aren't doing it very well.
DAing is NOT a "bad thing". Just because OSA, the taken over Church crew,
and their counterparts both within the critics AND the "freezone" do it
every which way but right, doesn't make the actual action of how to handle a
lie etc, WRONG.
What I have seen OSA, Ralph Hilton, BB, April Buchanan, Arnie, you, etc. do,
is several things that are ineffective against the full truth.
I'll cover some of them. You take something that is a specific, then turn it
into a generality, which is too easy to DA so then you end up making
yourselves look like idiots,
Now wait a second. I disagree there. OSA posts "Tory is a deep cover".
First off, to say, "No I am not...duh. So instead, I post MY Web sites, tell
people to read up, and find out for themselves. That IS the best "DA" there
is. Let people LEARN, vs any BS said.


next option is you yammer on without putting
Post by Virginia
ANY true, full specifics,
Again, this isn't true, either. Each time I post various web sites that show
what I have done and said. No, I'm not going to spend hours 'Proving" I
don't have orange teeth. First off, who cares. Secondly, here's the web site
SHOWING I do not. If someone doesn't want to LOOk, that's their problem.
From all I've spoken to, anyone honestly interested WILL look, and thus
learn the truth.

just say, "you lie", or whatever, which again
Post by Virginia
isn't so much a bad thing by itself, but it is when you don't ever truly
take the time to effectively handle it,
Virginia...
I am NOT going to spend hours doing exactly what OSA wants: Distraction.
It's Bs, I post the facts, anyone really interested will go look for
themselves. It's a bad game they are playing and by their own actions, they
are proving their own lies.


next option is you take an actual
Post by Virginia
lie, then lie about that in response,
Name one,please.

or use a partial lie etc., which
Post by Virginia
again, makes you look like idiots.
Again, please name one.
Post by Virginia
Look, you DO have examples where something is wrong. For example, the Santa
chair thing, BUT, you don't even handle THAT right.
First of all, you HAD to know that was their property. Isn't that correct?
(do correct me if I'm wrong on THAT point). Assuming that is correct, then
second of all, since you knew that, you went and sat in the chair anyway,
and were surprised that they seized on that tiny violation that YOU handed
them?
Virginia..this was hashed out in court. I have no intentions of wasting two
more minutes on it.
Post by Virginia
Geez Tory, you know some of these guys are seriously motivator hungry, so
why did you give them one? And not only that, one they could try and use in
COURT?
You were not there.....and it's done and over. They set people up with over
100 cameras in a 4 block area, on people who were picketing.
Did you get that? Even the Judge was grossed out when the 20 year old
'security officer' told that number.
Post by Virginia
Ok, so IF you were going to effectively DA what happened there, the first
thing you would have to do is have a CLEAN statement of that you knew it,
(which means that part of what you say can have no it's THEIR FAULT in it)
and the fact that you knew it, and then you did it anyway.
Virginia....

I Handled it..it's OVER....why are YOU still bringing it up, as if I'm
guilty? They lost, I won, end of story. They also PROVED to me they DO use
Fair Game. Use something that is now....vs something one year ago or more,
please.
Post by Virginia
AFTER that, then you can have the strength of position to address what THEY
did.
I have plenty of strength re what they did. Every person I speak to who
hears that story gets it 100%.
The fact that you are here, one or two years later saying I didn't is REALLY
weird to me.
Post by Virginia
Do you understand?
Virginia...I'm sorry but this is why I don't answer you often. People have
needs, and I have things I need to do. I wasted many hours of my life in a
courtroom about this stupid, petty BS. I have ~no~ intentions of re-hashing
something I already did, and won in a court of law, with you now saying I
didn't do it right. DUH!
Sorry.
Post by Virginia
Another thing, is this whole OSA and the posting names thing. You STILL
STILL STILL do not put really damaging to their lying game that way, full
specifics there.
I've posted more names than you have or really most people, that I know of.
Again, the fact that you SAY it isn't effective...well...then why the HEll
is C of $ lying about me day and night? None of the critics, X's or even
lurkers in that I've talked to believe this nut. Why do you?
Post by Virginia
Why?
I find you to be overall an exceedingly ineffective critic for the most
part,
You find ~most~ critics and X-Scios to be "Mostly exceeding ineffective".
Well, that is your opinion, isn't it? You are certainly entitled to it, and
if there's one thing I have learned about you..it's that YOU believe you are
right.

of the taken over Church of Scientology, and it's much larger game it
Post by Virginia
is part and parcel of.
The ONLY people you have any effectiveness with, are people who don't REALLY
want to be, or aren't (never were) Scientologists.
Again...your opinion. You have NO idea who I have effected, do you?
All you know is what you read here.
:) How sad is that?
Post by Virginia
I think it's disgusting that that's what you WANT to be effective at,
achieving the result of not becoming a scientologist, or becoming an
ex-scientologist, or becoming a "freezoner", etc.
Not true. I want people to know the facts about the abuses of an organzation
who hides ((( HIDES)) behind the curtain of 'religion' and they harm
families, people, and even their own staff. You are ok with that?
Post by Virginia
These are not viable options and are just more part of the overall plan to
ruin Scientology itself.
Well...I'll let you fix the big conspiracy....you and Mike can take that
puppy up.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
If that "DA's" him/her...so be it. The truth is, they really should stop
lying.
Agreed.
Post by Virginia
It's stupid, and SHOWS what lying bigots they really are.
Well, yes, but
No..............not well "yes...but". YES>
Yes, it does show what lying bigots they really are.


you need to knock off any lying or INACCURACIES as well,

So far I've heard nothing but generalities
about how bad I am. I'd ask for a specific, but I know you'd love that, and
I frankly don't care re hair splitting.

and
Post by Virginia
quit the name-calling your own self.
I don't call names, except to point out OSA's Goals, and that isn't name
calling. Those are FACTS, like it or lump it.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but
start
Post by Virginia
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known
to
Post by Virginia
do.
I have not called you names... at least in a year or so. I might have
one
Post by Virginia
or
Post by Virginia
two years ago, but lets stick with now, ok?
That's not true Tory. See what I mean?
Ok...show me the name I called you...in the last few months. No, I don't see
what you mean.
Post by Virginia
If I go bring up a post where you did it, and it's definitely NOT two years
ago, or even one year ago, now you just did what you are supposedly so
pissed at OSA and Truth Seeker for doing. You would then be seen to have
acted like in your own words a "lying bigot" because you were pissed at me.
I cannot believe I am having this conversation with you. I'm sorry,
I really am. You have called me things even in this post, that are not true,
without one FACT or One specific.
Post by Virginia
Before you speak and state things, do you even bother to find out the truth,
for example in this case, that would be WHEN did you last in any way insult
me with some sort of name or label?
No, you didn't, or you wouldn't have shot yourself in the foot with the
above.
And, I DO see that you haven't done it in THIS post, that is true, but don't
try and alter the truth and say it was one or two years ago was the last
time.
I don't spend time answering
Post by Virginia
your 'investigations'....
Why can't you answer my posts?
Because frankly, just like this one, they are a GIGANTIC waste of time. They
have what purpose?
I guess you are Truthseekers PR now? Well, jiminie crickets...way to go,
Virginia.

Do you honestly believe what he says? Or even if you don't....You want me to
spend hours 'proving' his flat out lies?
I post the Web sites, people can do their own research.
Good luck to you.

Tory/Magoo!
http://www.xenu.net.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.hmt
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
:)
Post by Virginia
if they are odd questions that seem to take
Post by Virginia
forever,
that are about whether I posted on Sunday or monday...totally
Post by Virginia
leaving out the POINTS I posted about.
You sure about that Tory?
Sorry, it comes under "Distraction"
Post by Virginia
and I won't do it, whether you mean it as such or not.
You won't correct your own untruths, or altered truths, that get proven as
such?
You're that callous about the truth when it comes to you, but when Truth
Seeker does it oh well that's DIFFERENT, they are a "lying bigot"?
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your
posts/email
Post by Virginia
s
Post by Virginia
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum.
I agree here fully, but you know he/she will not. They can't! They're flat
out lies.
That's not the complete concept of what correct means there.
Of course they can correct it. Say it's a lie, why they did it, and
apologize, and if they are really going the other direction, put the truth
there.
I bet you would consider that most definitely a correction, yes?
Post by Virginia
I haven't read all of Tory's
Post by Virginia
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any
goal
Post by Virginia
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc,
Scientology
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Are you still interested in exposing the abuses of "The Church of
Scientology"?
Absolutely.
But those that are behind the taken over "Church of Scientology", their
reach extends well out into the "freezone", the "critics", etc.
Are you not interested in exposing ALL the activities , or not?
I am.
Post by Virginia
Just curious.
So am I. Difference is, my curiousity is not limited where others
desperately WANT it to be.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Understood?
Well, I've heard what you said.
I *think* I get it, but when I first met you, you were quite interested in
exposing the lies and frauds connected with C of S, or so I thought.
I think I answered this above, but let me know if you feel I didn't, or have
further questions.
Now
Post by Virginia
you seem to be mostly posting about critics of
C of S. What changed?
Well, I can see how it could seem that way, but that's actually not entirely
accurate.
As to what changed?
I expanded my curiosity to fit the actual size of the situation.
I suggest you do the same.
Virginia
Post by Virginia
Tory/Magoo!
Post by Virginia
Virginia McClaughry
Post by Truth Seeker
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Virginia
2003-11-16 04:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for
helping
Post by Magoo
to
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Truth Seeker
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to
generate
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the
ack
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is
back
Post by Virginia
of
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your
posts
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather
obscene
Post by Virginia
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are
simply
Post by Virginia
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Good suggestion.
Thank you.
For the record,
Post by Virginia
I am not trying to "DA" anyone. I am saying this person is LYING about
me,
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
over and over and refuses to post ANY facts, or answer any questions.
That is a part of trying to DA. The problem is, you often don't actually
take the lying point and handle it correctly.
So, you are DAing, you just aren't doing it very well.
DAing is NOT a "bad thing". Just because OSA, the taken over Church crew,
and their counterparts both within the critics AND the "freezone" do it
every which way but right, doesn't make the actual action of how to
handle
Post by Magoo
a
Post by Virginia
lie etc, WRONG.
What I have seen OSA, Ralph Hilton, BB, April Buchanan, Arnie, you, etc.
do,
Post by Virginia
is several things that are ineffective against the full truth.
I'll cover some of them. You take something that is a specific, then
turn
Post by Magoo
it
Post by Virginia
into a generality, which is too easy to DA so then you end up making
yourselves look like idiots,
Now wait a second. I disagree there. OSA posts "Tory is a deep cover".
First off, to say, "No I am not...duh. So instead, I post MY Web sites, tell
people to read up, and find out for themselves. That IS the best "DA" there
is. Let people LEARN, vs any BS said.
No, well, let me rephrase that, that should be a good way, that's true, but
currently what you have on YOUR websites is NOT the best DA, that is the
point, do you understand what I mean?
Post by Magoo
next option is you yammer on without putting
Post by Virginia
ANY true, full specifics,
Again, this isn't true, either. Each time I post various web sites that show
what I have done and said. No, I'm not going to spend hours 'Proving" I
don't have orange teeth.
Well that's an easy one, take a picture and smile, not that orange teeth as
an accusation is even worth DAing in the first place - but seriously, yes it
is true, you do what I said above, with me. (yammer on without putting any
true specifics on your accusations of me in the past)
Post by Magoo
First off, who cares.
You do, or you wouldn't bother trying to DA anything with your websites in
the firstplace.

Plus I do, and I ain't the only one out here.

Secondly, here's the web site
Post by Magoo
SHOWING I do not.
Do not WHAT? You avoid giving truly full, damaging specifics when asked, as
to the OSA spamming/posting setup.

I know, because I've asked you for some, or asked you questions where you
contradict yourself, and you cannot seem to address those points EVER.
Post by Magoo
If someone doesn't want to LOOk, that's their problem.
Well, I see your point, but that doesn't necessarily always mean someone
"has" a problem.

I mean, why don't you look at certain things Re: the larger scheme of
things?

Does that mean you have a problem?
Post by Magoo
From all I've spoken to, anyone honestly interested WILL look, and thus
learn the truth.
Ahh, but what "truth"?

That they shouldn't be scientologists, right? Cuz it's a "destructive cult"
etc. etc.? That's not truth, that's opinion, and in some cases, outright
lie.
Post by Magoo
just say, "you lie", or whatever, which again
Post by Virginia
isn't so much a bad thing by itself, but it is when you don't ever truly
take the time to effectively handle it,
Virginia...
I am NOT going to spend hours doing exactly what OSA wants: Distraction.
It's Bs, I post the facts,
No, you don't ALL the time, or for that matter even most of the time.

Not to mean you NEVER do, but often I have read your posts, and what you
call a fact in some cases is really nothing even close to a real specific.

Again, that does NOT mean that I am saying that you NEVER do real specifics.

You do.

But, there's enough times that you don't, that then when that is pointed
out, you point to OTHER times you did, (or didn't) as if that's any kind of
handling for what you just got caught in being incorrect about.

That's an example of what I mean by you're being overall ineffective, and
you don't have to be.


anyone really interested will go look for
Post by Magoo
themselves. It's a bad game they are playing and by their own actions, they
are proving their own lies.
It's a bad game, yes, but "they" is a bit of a generality, and is
ineffective for very long anyway.

Who, (name), Where...etc., you know the drill.

So...take the questions I asked you about your OSA writeups, some
discrepancies there.

Number 1, what is the names of any of the internet accounts (businesses)
that you opened?
Post by Magoo
next option is you take an actual
Post by Virginia
lie, then lie about that in response,
Name one,please.
Ok, look Tory, do you really want to do this again? You wouldn't be trying
to distract ME off of what you stuck your foot in your mouth on recently
would you? I mean every time that I recall, that you "call" me on something,
I prove what you are trying to act like you didn't do, then you run away and
don't answer.

I think I have shown that more than once to you already, but do you answer?
No.
Post by Magoo
or use a partial lie etc., which
Post by Virginia
again, makes you look like idiots.
Again, please name one.
Your premise as to the arrival of Truth Seeker, which the only posts of
yours even vaguely related to what you SAID, were AFTER Truth Seeker
arrived.

Now, are you going to run away again, or face the music so to speak?
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Look, you DO have examples where something is wrong. For example, the
Santa
Post by Virginia
chair thing, BUT, you don't even handle THAT right.
First of all, you HAD to know that was their property. Isn't that correct?
(do correct me if I'm wrong on THAT point). Assuming that is correct, then
second of all, since you knew that, you went and sat in the chair anyway,
and were surprised that they seized on that tiny violation that YOU handed
them?
Virginia..this was hashed out in court. I have no intentions of wasting two
more minutes on it.
Now wait a minute - you ask, and ask, and ask, for willing to look, speak to
me, fix your lies, etc. etc to everyone and anyone practically, but when YOU
are asked something like the above......You aren't willing to say what your
responsibility was? How hard is that? "Yea, I knew it was their property and
I did it anyway." That had to take me a whole 3 seconds to type.

How on earth do you think you can ASK that someone else (even if it is Truth
Seeker) do what you won't do?
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Geez Tory, you know some of these guys are seriously motivator hungry, so
why did you give them one? And not only that, one they could try and use
in
Post by Virginia
COURT?
You were not there.....and it's done and over. They set people up with over
100 cameras in a 4 block area, on people who were picketing.
Did you get that?
I heard something like that, didn't know the exact number of cameras.

But still, was the chair on their property or not?


Even the Judge was grossed out when the 20 year old
Post by Magoo
'security officer' told that number.
Well of course, why wouldn't he be? It is GROSS!

But it's also starting to get pretty gross that you cannot answer a simple
question as to your responsibility in the matter.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Ok, so IF you were going to effectively DA what happened there, the first
thing you would have to do is have a CLEAN statement of that you knew it,
(which means that part of what you say can have no it's THEIR FAULT in it)
and the fact that you knew it, and then you did it anyway.
Virginia....
I Handled it..it's OVER....why are YOU still bringing it up, as if I'm
guilty?
Well, "guilt" is not anything close to what I was asking.

Was it their property or was it PUBLIC property?

If OSA came and sat on your lawn, as in say private property, then that's ok
with you right now?

I mean get real, You can't think that with those 100 cameras that these
people think you are their friend, anymore than you would think OSA came and
sat on your lawn "as a friend".

You should have asked, just like you would expect, and could legally demand,
that they ask.

I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Or at the very least, if you are going to do something you know you can get
in any kind of trouble for, you should be willing to take the heat.
Post by Magoo
They lost, I won, end of story.
Hey now, you brought it up I think twice in the last week, you use the story
to show how "bad" Scientology is, but if I ask you a simple question you now
act like it's history?

Well then why do you keep bringing it up if its so unimportant and not worth
your time to discuss?


They also PROVED to me they DO use
Post by Magoo
Fair Game.
I'm sure you will make fun of this, but what Fair game? ON THIS POINT ALONE,
if you went on their property, and they reacted to what you did, how the
heck is THAT Fair Game? Because you were silly enough to tease the lion in
their own cage? You have lied about me, several times in the past, Lieing is
listed under fair game tactics, so technically I could say you practice Fair
Game - to YOUR perceived "enemies" now.

There's Fair Game and there's Fair Game, if you follow me on that.

So, get off your high horse on that point.


Use something that is now....vs something one year ago or more,
Post by Magoo
please.
Been done, and a lot less than a year ago. You don't answer.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
AFTER that, then you can have the strength of position to address what
THEY
Post by Virginia
did.
I have plenty of strength re what they did. Every person I speak to who
hears that story gets it 100%.
The fact that you are here, one or two years later saying I didn't is REALLY
weird to me.
So, I'm not the sheep that just believes you hook-line-and-sinker...oh well.

I can be "wierd" if that's what wierd is.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Do you understand?
Virginia...I'm sorry but this is why I don't answer you often.
Do you know that this is getting to be what you do every time you can't or
won't, correct whatever inaccuracy you did?

You try and put it on me.

People are watching, and some of them are beginning to see.
Post by Magoo
People have
needs, and I have things I need to do. I wasted many hours of my life in a
courtroom about this stupid, petty BS.
Yes, I know that, but that doesn't change what I asked you. Did you know
beforehand that the Chair was on private Church property - or not?

I have ~no~ intentions of re-hashing
Post by Magoo
something I already did,
You do it about once every couple of weeks at least, "rehash" it, but I
guess that's for Propaganda purposes only to try and get "Scientology" hated
and feared on a big A=A, not for anyone to actually dare to question you on
it.

That's
and won in a court of law, with you now saying I
Post by Magoo
didn't do it right. DUH!
Sorry.
I asked you did you know that the chair was on their property before you sat
on it, and you did it anyway?

I don't in anyway think the Church was fair, or even in the moral right for
taking you to court on it.

The point is, judging from your HUGE avoidance on the questi n - you knew,
and you did it anyway, and you teased the lion in it's cage and cried foul
when it scratched or bit you.

That's as PETTY for you to bait them at your OWN RISK, as what the Church
did in response!
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Another thing, is this whole OSA and the posting names thing. You STILL
STILL STILL do not put really damaging to their lying game that way, full
specifics there.
I've posted more names than you have or really most people, that I know of.
Well, that's true, I meant the accounts Tory, what are the names of the
accounts?
Post by Magoo
Again, the fact that you SAY it isn't effective...well...then why the HEll
is C of $ lying about me day and night? None of the critics, X's or even
lurkers in that I've talked to believe this nut. Why do you?
That's a good question.

Why are they doing that.

As to believing, do you mean Truth Seeker?

I never said I believed what Truth Seeker writes about you.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Why?
I find you to be overall an exceedingly ineffective critic for the most
part,
You find ~most~ critics and X-Scios to be "Mostly exceeding ineffective".
Well, that is your opinion, isn't it? You are certainly entitled to it, and
if there's one thing I have learned about you..it's that YOU believe you are
right.
Well Ok.
Post by Magoo
of the taken over Church of Scientology, and it's much larger game it
Post by Virginia
is part and parcel of.
The ONLY people you have any effectiveness with, are people who don't
REALLY
Post by Virginia
want to be, or aren't (never were) Scientologists.
Again...your opinion. You have NO idea who I have effected, do you?
Yes, I think I do, at least more than what you are inferring.
Post by Magoo
All you know is what you read here.
No, that's not true.

Like I told you before, you aren't the only one with lines to pick up things
on.
Post by Magoo
:) How sad is that?
See above.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
I think it's disgusting that that's what you WANT to be effective at,
achieving the result of not becoming a scientologist, or becoming an
ex-scientologist, or becoming a "freezoner", etc.
Not true. I want people to know the facts about the abuses of an organzation
who hides ((( HIDES)) behind the curtain of 'religion' and they harm
families, people, and even their own staff. You are ok with that?
That's the statement of purpose that YOU "hide" behind.

Do you really think noone notices your "pleasure" over when "another person"
becomes an ex - scientologist, or a "doesn't ever want to BE a
scientologist"?

Sell it to the ex's Tory.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
These are not viable options and are just more part of the overall plan to
ruin Scientology itself.
Well...I'll let you fix the big conspiracy....you and Mike can take that
puppy up.
Ok, fair enough.

But you are right in the middle of things that way, and that's your choice,
so here we all are.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
If that "DA's" him/her...so be it. The truth is, they really should
stop
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
lying.
Agreed.
Post by Virginia
It's stupid, and SHOWS what lying bigots they really are.
Well, yes, but
No..............not well "yes...but". YES>
Yes, it does show what lying bigots they really are.
you need to knock off any lying or INACCURACIES as well,
So far I've heard nothing but generalities
about how bad I am.
Oh horsepuckey Tory.

I've given you specifics more than enough times, with repeated no answers
from you.
Post by Magoo
I'd ask for a specific, but I know you'd love that,
OK, well, although you didn't really say it as a compliment, I'm going to
thank you anyway, because I know the above means you know down to your toes,
that I will and do, deal in specifics, or I try my best to anyway.

and
Post by Magoo
I frankly don't care re hair splitting.
I think you care a lot, the problem is, you aren't willing to face the
music.
Post by Magoo
and
Post by Virginia
quit the name-calling your own self.
I don't call names, except to point out OSA's Goals, and that isn't name
calling. Those are FACTS, like it or lump it.
Yes, you do call names, and you don't need to as much as you have done it.
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but
start
Post by Virginia
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been
known
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
to
Post by Virginia
do.
I have not called you names... at least in a year or so. I might have
one
Post by Virginia
or
Post by Virginia
two years ago, but lets stick with now, ok?
That's not true Tory. See what I mean?
Ok...show me the name I called you...in the last few months. No, I don't see
what you mean.
You just said you don't want me to find a specific.

You sure you want me to, or are you just realizing you had to narrow it down
a WHOLE lot less than two year or one year ago?
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
If I go bring up a post where you did it, and it's definitely NOT two
years
Post by Virginia
ago, or even one year ago, now you just did what you are supposedly so
pissed at OSA and Truth Seeker for doing. You would then be seen to have
acted like in your own words a "lying bigot" because you were pissed at
me.
I cannot believe I am having this conversation with you.
Ok.


I'm sorry,
Post by Magoo
I really am.
Ok, thank you Tory. Now, how about you correct the things you are sorry
about?

Like...well you know what I mean.

Is that really too much to ask?
Post by Magoo
You have called me things even in this post, that are not true,
without one FACT or One specific.
I said if you (and others named) lie, and get caught at it, it makes you
(and others named) look like an idiot, is that what you mean?
Post by Magoo
Post by Virginia
Before you speak and state things, do you even bother to find out the
truth,
Post by Virginia
for example in this case, that would be WHEN did you last in any way
insult
Post by Virginia
me with some sort of name or label?
No, you didn't, or you wouldn't have shot yourself in the foot with the
above.
And, I DO see that you haven't done it in THIS post, that is true, but
don't
Post by Virginia
try and alter the truth and say it was one or two years ago was the last
time.
I don't spend time answering
Post by Virginia
your 'investigations'....
Why can't you answer my posts?
Because frankly, just like this one, they are a GIGANTIC waste of time. They
have what purpose?
I guess none for you, if you don't want any real truth on these points you
raise. I guess you want to post and everyone just falls over and believes
you and turns into ex=scientologists and runs off into the sunset and live
happily ever after.

Put your jammies on cuz you're dreamin' if you think that's what all the
real scientologists are going to do.
Post by Magoo
I guess you are Truthseekers PR now?
That was nasty Tory, and there's a specific lie.

You know that's not true.

Well, jiminie crickets...way to go,
Post by Magoo
Virginia.
Do you honestly believe what he says?
No. Not most of what I've read anyway. But then I'm pretty good at telling
truth from BS, and I am very very familiar with these newsgroups. Other
people? Might not be.

You should remember that.

Or even if you don't....You want me to
Post by Magoo
spend hours 'proving' his flat out lies?
Well, he says the same ones over and over, doesnt he? (or she). So do it
once RIGHT, and get it over with.
Post by Magoo
I post the Web sites, people can do their own research.
Good luck to you.
Well the websites present their own problems, like I already covered more
than once.

But anyway, good luck to you too.

Hope you answer some more.

And by the way, did it ever occur to you that you need to learn how to have
open communication with the real scientologists?

Well?

I ain't the only one around you know.

You could consider it practice.

:-)


Virginia
Post by Magoo
Tory/Magoo!
http://www.xenu.net.
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.hmt
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
:)
Post by Virginia
if they are odd questions that seem to take
Post by Virginia
forever,
that are about whether I posted on Sunday or monday...totally
Post by Virginia
leaving out the POINTS I posted about.
You sure about that Tory?
Sorry, it comes under "Distraction"
Post by Virginia
and I won't do it, whether you mean it as such or not.
You won't correct your own untruths, or altered truths, that get proven as
such?
You're that callous about the truth when it comes to you, but when Truth
Seeker does it oh well that's DIFFERENT, they are a "lying bigot"?
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your
posts/email
Post by Virginia
s
Post by Virginia
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum.
I agree here fully, but you know he/she will not. They can't! They're
flat
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
out lies.
That's not the complete concept of what correct means there.
Of course they can correct it. Say it's a lie, why they did it, and
apologize, and if they are really going the other direction, put the truth
there.
I bet you would consider that most definitely a correction, yes?
Post by Virginia
I haven't read all of Tory's
Post by Virginia
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with
any
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
goal
Post by Virginia
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc,
Scientology
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of
your
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
posts do go in that direction.
Are you still interested in exposing the abuses of "The Church of
Scientology"?
Absolutely.
But those that are behind the taken over "Church of Scientology", their
reach extends well out into the "freezone", the "critics", etc.
Are you not interested in exposing ALL the activities , or not?
I am.
Post by Virginia
Just curious.
So am I. Difference is, my curiousity is not limited where others
desperately WANT it to be.
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Understood?
Well, I've heard what you said.
I *think* I get it, but when I first met you, you were quite
interested
Post by Magoo
in
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
exposing the lies and frauds connected with C of S, or so I thought.
I think I answered this above, but let me know if you feel I didn't, or
have
Post by Virginia
further questions.
Now
Post by Virginia
you seem to be mostly posting about critics of
C of S. What changed?
Well, I can see how it could seem that way, but that's actually not
entirely
Post by Virginia
accurate.
As to what changed?
I expanded my curiosity to fit the actual size of the situation.
I suggest you do the same.
Virginia
Post by Virginia
Tory/Magoo!
Post by Virginia
Virginia McClaughry
Post by Truth Seeker
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by
Scientology"
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Truth Seeker
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Truth Seeker
2003-11-17 03:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to
generate
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back
of
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your
posts
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather
obscene
Post by Virginia
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are
simply
Post by Virginia
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Good suggestion.
Thank you.
For the record,
Post by Virginia
I am not trying to "DA" anyone. I am saying this person is LYING about me,
over and over and refuses to post ANY facts, or answer any questions.
That is a part of trying to DA. The problem is, you often don't actually
take the lying point and handle it correctly.
So, you are DAing, you just aren't doing it very well.
DAing is NOT a "bad thing". Just because OSA, the taken over Church crew,
and their counterparts both within the critics AND the "freezone" do it
every which way but right, doesn't make the actual action of how to handle a
lie etc, WRONG.
What I have seen OSA, Ralph Hilton, BB, April Buchanan, Arnie, you, etc. do,
is several things that are ineffective against the full truth.
I'll cover some of them. You take something that is a specific, then turn it
into a generality, which is too easy to DA so then you end up making
yourselves look like idiots, next option is you yammer on without putting
ANY true, full specifics, just say, "you lie", or whatever, which again
isn't so much a bad thing by itself, but it is when you don't ever truly
take the time to effectively handle it, next option is you take an actual
lie, then lie about that in response, or use a partial lie etc., which
again, makes you look like idiots.
Look, you DO have examples where something is wrong. For example, the Santa
chair thing, BUT, you don't even handle THAT right.
First of all, you HAD to know that was their property. Isn't that correct?
(do correct me if I'm wrong on THAT point). Assuming that is correct, then
second of all, since you knew that, you went and sat in the chair anyway,
and were surprised that they seized on that tiny violation that YOU handed
them?
Geez Tory, you know some of these guys are seriously motivator hungry, so
why did you give them one? And not only that, one they could try and use in
COURT?
Ok, so IF you were going to effectively DA what happened there, the first
thing you would have to do is have a CLEAN statement of that you knew it,
(which means that part of what you say can have no it's THEIR FAULT in it)
and the fact that you knew it, and then you did it anyway.
AFTER that, then you can have the strength of position to address what THEY
did.
Do you understand?
Another thing, is this whole OSA and the posting names thing. You STILL
STILL STILL do not put really damaging to their lying game that way, full
specifics there.
Why?
I find you to be overall an exceedingly ineffective critic for the most
part, of the taken over Church of Scientology, and it's much larger game it
is part and parcel of.
That's because she not a critic at all. She's not trying to
discredit and hurt the Church of Scientology but the Critics of
Scientology. Tory is not really a critic.
Post by Virginia
The ONLY people you have any effectiveness with, are people who don't REALLY
want to be, or aren't (never were) Scientologists.
She doesn't WANT be effective with Scientologists. She wants the
Scientologist to go back into the Org!
Post by Virginia
I think it's disgusting that that's what you WANT to be effective at,
achieving the result of not becoming a scientologist, or becoming an
ex-scientologist, or becoming a "freezoner", etc.
These are not viable options and are just more part of the overall plan to
ruin Scientology itself.
No No Virginia. She's trying to ruin the CRITICS of Scientology.
By holing herself as one and then acting stupid.





Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Virginia
2003-11-17 05:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to
generate
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back
of
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your
posts
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather
obscene
Post by Virginia
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are
simply
Post by Virginia
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Good suggestion.
Thank you.
For the record,
Post by Virginia
I am not trying to "DA" anyone. I am saying this person is LYING about me,
over and over and refuses to post ANY facts, or answer any questions.
That is a part of trying to DA. The problem is, you often don't actually
take the lying point and handle it correctly.
So, you are DAing, you just aren't doing it very well.
DAing is NOT a "bad thing". Just because OSA, the taken over Church crew,
and their counterparts both within the critics AND the "freezone" do it
every which way but right, doesn't make the actual action of how to handle a
lie etc, WRONG.
What I have seen OSA, Ralph Hilton, BB, April Buchanan, Arnie, you, etc. do,
is several things that are ineffective against the full truth.
I'll cover some of them. You take something that is a specific, then turn it
into a generality, which is too easy to DA so then you end up making
yourselves look like idiots, next option is you yammer on without putting
ANY true, full specifics, just say, "you lie", or whatever, which again
isn't so much a bad thing by itself, but it is when you don't ever truly
take the time to effectively handle it, next option is you take an actual
lie, then lie about that in response, or use a partial lie etc., which
again, makes you look like idiots.
Look, you DO have examples where something is wrong. For example, the Santa
chair thing, BUT, you don't even handle THAT right.
First of all, you HAD to know that was their property. Isn't that correct?
(do correct me if I'm wrong on THAT point). Assuming that is correct, then
second of all, since you knew that, you went and sat in the chair anyway,
and were surprised that they seized on that tiny violation that YOU handed
them?
Geez Tory, you know some of these guys are seriously motivator hungry, so
why did you give them one? And not only that, one they could try and use in
COURT?
Ok, so IF you were going to effectively DA what happened there, the first
thing you would have to do is have a CLEAN statement of that you knew it,
(which means that part of what you say can have no it's THEIR FAULT in it)
and the fact that you knew it, and then you did it anyway.
AFTER that, then you can have the strength of position to address what THEY
did.
Do you understand?
Another thing, is this whole OSA and the posting names thing. You STILL
STILL STILL do not put really damaging to their lying game that way, full
specifics there.
Why?
I find you to be overall an exceedingly ineffective critic for the most
part, of the taken over Church of Scientology, and it's much larger game it
is part and parcel of.
That's because she not a critic at all. She's not trying to
discredit and hurt the Church of Scientology but the Critics of
Scientology. Tory is not really a critic.
Post by Virginia
The ONLY people you have any effectiveness with, are people who don't REALLY
want to be, or aren't (never were) Scientologists.
She doesn't WANT be effective with Scientologists.
Well, I have to agree with you there, because she sure as heck can't deal
with a real one, at all.


She wants the
Post by Truth Seeker
Scientologist to go back into the Org!
That's an interesting point.
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Virginia
I think it's disgusting that that's what you WANT to be effective at,
achieving the result of not becoming a scientologist, or becoming an
ex-scientologist, or becoming a "freezoner", etc.
These are not viable options and are just more part of the overall plan to
ruin Scientology itself.
No No Virginia. She's trying to ruin the CRITICS of Scientology.
OK, I understand what you're saying.

But don't forget, she speaks highly of Alan Walter, and he is most
DEFINITELY part of this whole game, "freezone" as well as "ex-scientologist"
interestingly enough.
Post by Truth Seeker
By holing herself as one and then acting stupid.
As much as I'm probably going to get ragged on for saying it, I have
observed she does behave pretty stupidly when faced with her own lies or
inaccuracies.

As does Ralph Hilton, as does Alan Walter, etc. etc.

Virginia
Post by Truth Seeker
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Truth Seeker
2003-11-17 03:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather obscene
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are simply
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Sometimes I have a little bit of fun with her. Your right, maybe
I should be more business like.
Post by Virginia
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but start
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known to
do.
Your right, she does. Especially when your about to prove that she
what she said earlier was untrue.
Post by Virginia
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/emails
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't read all of Tory's
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any goal
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Understood?
Virginia McClaughry
Sure. What makes you think I had any plans on enlisting your aid?
Buddying up with somebody on this newsgroup is a fatal mistake, one
Bob made that I will not. No matter how much REALITY there is, got
that? For some strange reason you are on Ralph Dorian's troll list,
have any idea why?





Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Virginia
2003-11-17 04:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Virginia
SNIP
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Well, regardless of all the positioning this response is going to generate
amongst the resident posting identities.......I think I will ack the ack
anyway, because I have a couple things I want to say to whoever is back of
the posting identity Truth Seeker, concerning Tory.
First the ack of the ack.
Truth Seeker,
Thank you.
About your posts concerning Tory..... she is correct in saying your posts
about her more often than not, lack true specifics, and your rather obscene
and insulting name-calling of her, is completely unnecessary. You are simply
making it quite easy for her to DA you because of those two points.
Sometimes I have a little bit of fun with her. Your right, maybe
I should be more business like.
OK.
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Virginia
I, on the other hand, am a lot harder for her to do anything with but start
calling me names...or completely avoid my posts, like she has been known to
do.
Your right, she does. Especially when your about to prove that she
what she said earlier was untrue.
No argument there.
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Virginia
You should correct the above mentioned points relating to your posts/emails
to and about Tory, at an absolute minimum. I haven't read all of Tory's
points, but I do know the two above have been present on more than one
occasion in your posts.
Also, I wish to make it very clear, that I am not in alignment with any goal
or purpose of seeking to destroy, "expose as fraud", etc. etc, Scientology
the subject in it's integrity, and from a glance, it seems a lot of your
posts do go in that direction.
Understood?
Virginia McClaughry
Sure. What makes you think I had any plans on enlisting your aid?
I didn't, nor do I.
Post by Truth Seeker
Buddying up with somebody on this newsgroup is a fatal mistake, one
Bob made that I will not. No matter how much REALITY there is, got
that?
Oh yea, definitely agree with you there.


For some strange reason you are on Ralph Dorian's troll list,
Post by Truth Seeker
have any idea why?
Yes, basically he got pissed off when I called him on his whole criteria for
determining whether I was "me" or not. I think it was that I had to go down
to the LMT before I am really Mike's wife, or some such.

Ok, now this is without digging up the posts on this as this was quite a
while ago, but if you notice Mike McClaughry, (my husband) Dorian doesn't
have on his list, per Dorian this is I believe because he went to the LMT
and met Bob and Stacy. When offered for him to ask Stacy what's Mike's phone
number, and to then verify through Mike and Stacy that I am indeed me,
Virginia McClaughry, and that is me, Virginia McClaughry, posting - Dorian
got all upset, and it was after that that Dorian started putting my name on
his trolls list.

Virginia
Post by Truth Seeker
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Heffer
2003-11-16 16:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Seeker
I care about what you are doing, Virginia. Thanks for helping to
bring out the truth. :-)
Yeah, two fruitcakes patting each-other on the back.

Neither of you seem to have any grasp on reality, but
one of you is certainly an acute liar.


---
Heffer, OSA Lackey, H-Group
#315905 on the Dorian List
Regurgitating Propagandist
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