Discussion:
Why Tory wants you to leave this newsgroup and go to a web site
(too old to reply)
Truth Seeker
2003-11-16 17:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Why Tory wants you to leave this newsgroup and go to a web site:


OSA wants to get the reader's attention out of this newsgroup and
onto a web site that was designed to discredit the critics of
Scientology, NOT Scientology. The effect they are after once you log
onto a OSA created and controlled web site is 1. To track the reader's
location 2. To have the reader come to one or more of the following
conclusions about the critics of Scientology:


1. They don't know what there are talking about.

2. They are liars.

3. They are SP's just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his lectures from
the PTS/SP course.

4. They are mentally ill just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.

5. They are at 1.1 on the Tone Scale just like L. Ron Hubbard said in
the book "Science of Survival".

6. They are lowlifes or perverts like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.

7. They are religious bigots.

This is the desired end result the Church of Scientology wants
and it's a lot easier for them to accomplish it if they can get the
reader off this newsgroup and on to one of their web sites.




Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Magoo
2003-11-16 18:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Here is my response, to this person spreading lies about me daily.

Update: OSA 101 Series, 3 Years Later

When I left the Church <Gack> of Scientology, in July of 2000, I left with
one gigantic secret: I had been a member of their Top Secret OSA
International Internet Secret Mafia. When I left, by the way, I literally
escaped. I was followed to the Airport by their Vice President of
Scientology, met in Chicago by OSA members, and finally assisted out of the
Tampa Airport by the Tampa Police, with a gang of OSA and “OT’s” there
trying to stop me from leaving.

((For anyone truly new, OSA stands for The Office of Special Affairs and is
the Church of Scientology’s legal and PR department, or so they say. In
truth, this is a story about their dirty Tricks Department, which IS a part
of OSA, which is run by their top Executives in Scientology))

In the mid ‘90’s I was asked to “help” them, my best friend and auditor,
Class 8, OT 7, Senior C/S, Staff member, Bill Yaude. I have written up the
full story about my assistance as a volunteer with OSA in trying to “handle
the critics” and finally my realizing they were/are actually trying to stop
free speech. Here is the link to the OSA 101 Story:
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm


However, I wanted to write an update to this OSA 101 series, as I feel it
is needed.

Since I have left, OSA has tried a number of things, resulting in their
“Fair Game” tactics. While In, I swore this was cancelled, as I believed
what I was told. I am here to tell all, it is most definitely NOT cancelled.
OSA does creepy things all the time to try to stop their critics from
speaking out.

They tried to pin a Criminal Conviction on me for sitting in a Red
Santa’s chair in Clearwater, Fl. (This was something literally I had to go
to court for, they claiming I had violated their feeble Injunction, trying
to stop the critics from picketing around the date of the death of Lisa
McPherson, a Scientologist who died grossly due to their medical
malpractice). I and 14 others and spent 9 days in court fighting with OSA’s
Mike Reinder and many of their top attorneys).
They ended up losing; the Judge ruled it was NOT a criminal Conviction. It
was their worst move for me, as in leaving I had met enough people and heard
the ~true~ stories (Vs Scientology’s lies) to know there is Fair Game.
However, now it not only showed me TRULY there IS Fair Game, they’d Fair
Gamed ME!

They’ve (OSA) tried many other Fair Game actions, including trying to post
many lies about me here on ARS. From the beginning they tried to ‘handle’
me, telling me I was “Too Over restimulated and I needed to take a rest”.
These are their terms to go away and shut up! Obviously I’m still here.

Recently, they came up with a new plan. Now before I go into this, let me re
state what their goals were/are, which I’ve been posting for the last 3
years:

1) Take out Bob Minton and LMT.
2) Black PR the Critics (Post tons of lies about them, so they look and
sound horrible, unbelievable, and distrusted).
3) Finally, post whatever has to be posted so that ARS looks insane, no one
will want to read it, and will leave. (This includes always driving any
“hot” topics off the first page that the general public might see).

I am writing this mostly for the newer people who come onto ARS, as the
regulars have figured this out, long ago.

However, they came up with a new plan, a few months ago. I’m not sure which
thing I did that made DM order to “Nail Tory” …but someone named “Truth
Seeker” has been flat out on that, for some time. Well, he actually also
puts down other critics, and X-Scientologists, but recently he has made many
posts lying about me.

Here are my observations:
1. Some say he is ‘just a troll’. Well, I disagree as he is fully following
OSA’s Plans to the tee. He/she never reads what I say, which is also an OSA
thing: They cannot, really, as they might wake up.

2. TS never answers any questions. Again, this is totally OSA:
”Post the lie, and move on”.

3. TS never posts ANY facts. If you read his/her posts, they are filled with
the Wizard of OZ attempts to spread FEAR.
“Don’t look, don’t read, be careful”.
Again, Hubbard’s basic rule of thumb is “Never defend, always attack!” So
TS is doing this completely by posting these lies, over and over. What
exactly is there to be fearful of? I am saying, these are the Web sites I
suggest.
These sites are created by X-Scientologists (Some of whom Scientology took
to court), and critics, most of whom C of $ has now posted on their Hate Web
pages: DUH! By the way, I don’t see ‘ol “Truthseeker” there, do you?

However, even if you are worried about that, just type in
Google, and type in “Scientology” and read.

It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn’t notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts. The facts, the court doc’
s, are on the Internet, and IF you read up, you shall find out both sides.

Once you do, I suggest you make up your own mind. That’s the best advice
Andreas gave to me in July, 2000, and I still think it is the best. As he
said, “I don’t think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed. I suggest you read up, study both sides, and decide for
yourself”. I did, and left soon after.

4. TS posts HUGE volumes of lies, over and over again.
Hubbard said, “It doesn’t matter what you say, if you say
it enough, to enough people, they will begin to believe it”.
He’s right on target there…although I’m not sure how many
People believe him. I’ve noticed one or two people will try to
Cover their Asses saying, “Well, even if Tory is a ____”
But that has been true since I first began posting.

5. I have noticed he/she basically posts a large majority of what I have
posted since I left Scientology, as if HE thought it up! I left and posted
what the actual goals were of OSA, as I’d been working with them as a
volunteer.
See http://www.torymagoo.org and you can see all the posts I
wrote, and when. At the bottom, under my name, I have posted the year and
month for most. Now he posts the same things, as if it is his. I read very
little of what he posts, but
Others can check and see if he’s used your own words too.
Check it out and see.

6. Last and most important is this OSA op NEVER posts any actual facts about
the abuses of Scientology, as is true of anyone working for OSA. (See their
goals above).

These are sites I suggest reading. They have information and facts and
experiences on them that C of $ doesn’t want you to see. These are only a
few:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.xenutv.com (videos)
http://www.torymagoo.org (OT 7 Speaks out)
http://www.altreligionscientology.org (Many other great sites
listed here)
http://www.scientologywatch.org
and read up on these abuses, posted by Free Speech Advocates and
X-Scientologists as well.

I cannot say it enough: Study up for yourself. Find out for yourself.
Scientology was built by a mad man: L. Ron Hubbard, who wanted people to
ONLY believe him. He was a liar, a cheap, a wife abuser, a drug taker, and
used medical malpractice to harm many,
Myself included. If you want to read about that, go to
http://www.xenu.net Personal Stories, Tory’s Story and
Read my affidavit. That tells a lot about this organization hiding behind
religion.

I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will agree
with them, “The critics are all nuts”. I know, as I did for many years! This
is their program, run out of RTC, to stop Free Speech on the Internet. The
facts are unbelievable at first, as I know for me; I was SO Insulated it
truly was just like
”The Truman Show” for me. I suggest you do your own research.

Good luck in your hunt :)

Tory Christman
Aka: Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight!~
Burbank, CA
Aka: Tory Bezazian ( Per Divorce due to leaving)
X-Scientologist after 30 years “in”
X- OT 7 after 7 years on it
X- Sea Org (briefly, 1971)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X- OSA Int Volunteer for 20 years
X-Staff at CC and AOLA
X-OSA Int Top Secret Internet Mafia Member, until I found out what they
were ~really~ doing and quit.
X- Executive Director of The Scientology Parishioners League
For thinking and speaking my mind, I am now:

Declared a Suppressive Person (SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from The Church of Scientology *wooo hooooo!!!)
Free at LAST!
Dave Sweetland
2003-11-17 01:07:47 UTC
Permalink
November 16, 2003

Dear Tory,

The words "Fair Game" have been canceled in the COS.

By way of analoigy, in the Roman Catholic Church the words "Holy
Ghost" were cancelled and replaced with "Holy Spirit". The RCC did
this because "Ghost" had come to mean gobblins, Casper the Friendly
Ghost; Haloween; Horror Moveis, etc. All of the "true meaning" behind
Ghost remains exactly as it was before, but the word "spirit" is used.

The Church of Scientology has consistently maintained that BETRAYAL of
former members is part of its Scriptures. It is front and center in
"The AIms of Scientology". "we will never betray your faith in us so
long as you are one of us"!!!! How much more clearly can it be
spelled out?? You may be betrayed if you are a former member. No
surprise here!! This is fully disclosed!!! You have been betrayed,
just like you were told you might be.

Keep in mind also that Scientology is the sole agaency in existence
that can prevent the destruction of civilization or bring about a new
better one.
Keep in mind that the proper attitude for an instructor to take is "we
would rather see you dead tha incapabale".
Keep in mind that Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter 17 March
1965 then titled FAIR GAME LAW - ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS - THE
SOURCE OF THE FAIR GAME LAW was latter reissued as Issue IV, and is
identical to the former issue except the title has been changed to be
only ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS and the sentence "Hence we have
a Fair Game Law." was deleted. In other words, the source of the fair
game law remains while the term has been canceled.

We would all be better off if we simply replace the term "fair game"
with "betrayed". After all "Fair Game" was simply another way of
saying betrayed. What greater betrayal is there tahn to be
"destroyed" especially by ones formerly trusted.

I had a high rankiong Scientology official insist that "we will never
betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us" meant the same
as "we will never betray your faith in us." When I asked her if "I
will never wear a cap meant the same as I will never wear a cap on
Tuesday" her angry response was to refuse to answer and say, "I will
not fal for your tricks, David Sweetland!!!"

Orwelian double think is a nasty thing.

It's probably perfectly legal for the COS to betray every trust any
former member has ever placed by posting all of their files on the
internet. Priest/Penitent privildge is far more for the protection of
the "priest" than the "penitent".

-- Dave Sweetland

805.582.0514
Post by Magoo
Here is my response, to this person spreading lies about me daily.
Update: OSA 101 Series, 3 Years Later
When I left the Church <Gack> of Scientology, in July of 2000, I left with
one gigantic secret: I had been a member of their Top Secret OSA
International Internet Secret Mafia. When I left, by the way, I literally
escaped. I was followed to the Airport by their Vice President of
Scientology, met in Chicago by OSA members, and finally assisted out of the
Tampa Airport by the Tampa Police, with a gang of OSA and ?OT?s? there
trying to stop me from leaving.
((For anyone truly new, OSA stands for The Office of Special Affairs and is
the Church of Scientology?s legal and PR department, or so they say. In
truth, this is a story about their dirty Tricks Department, which IS a part
of OSA, which is run by their top Executives in Scientology))
In the mid ?90?s I was asked to ?help? them, my best friend and auditor,
Class 8, OT 7, Senior C/S, Staff member, Bill Yaude. I have written up the
full story about my assistance as a volunteer with OSA in trying to ?handle
the critics? and finally my realizing they were/are actually trying to stop
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
However, I wanted to write an update to this OSA 101 series, as I feel it
is needed.
Since I have left, OSA has tried a number of things, resulting in their
?Fair Game? tactics. While In, I swore this was cancelled, as I believed
what I was told. I am here to tell all, it is most definitely NOT cancelled.
OSA does creepy things all the time to try to stop their critics from
speaking out.
They tried to pin a Criminal Conviction on me for sitting in a Red
Santa?s chair in Clearwater, Fl. (This was something literally I had to go
to court for, they claiming I had violated their feeble Injunction, trying
to stop the critics from picketing around the date of the death of Lisa
McPherson, a Scientologist who died grossly due to their medical
malpractice). I and 14 others and spent 9 days in court fighting with OSA?s
Mike Reinder and many of their top attorneys).
They ended up losing; the Judge ruled it was NOT a criminal Conviction. It
was their worst move for me, as in leaving I had met enough people and heard
the ~true~ stories (Vs Scientology?s lies) to know there is Fair Game.
However, now it not only showed me TRULY there IS Fair Game, they?d Fair
Gamed ME!
They?ve (OSA) tried many other Fair Game actions, including trying to post
many lies about me here on ARS. From the beginning they tried to ?handle?
me, telling me I was ?Too Over restimulated and I needed to take a rest?.
These are their terms to go away and shut up! Obviously I?m still here.
Recently, they came up with a new plan. Now before I go into this, let me re
state what their goals were/are, which I?ve been posting for the last 3
1) Take out Bob Minton and LMT.
2) Black PR the Critics (Post tons of lies about them, so they look and
sound horrible, unbelievable, and distrusted).
3) Finally, post whatever has to be posted so that ARS looks insane, no one
will want to read it, and will leave. (This includes always driving any
?hot? topics off the first page that the general public might see).
I am writing this mostly for the newer people who come onto ARS, as the
regulars have figured this out, long ago.
However, they came up with a new plan, a few months ago. I?m not sure which
thing I did that made DM order to ?Nail Tory? ?but someone named ?Truth
Seeker? has been flat out on that, for some time. Well, he actually also
puts down other critics, and X-Scientologists, but recently he has made many
posts lying about me.
1. Some say he is ?just a troll?. Well, I disagree as he is fully following
OSA?s Plans to the tee. He/she never reads what I say, which is also an OSA
thing: They cannot, really, as they might wake up.
?Post the lie, and move on?.
3. TS never posts ANY facts. If you read his/her posts, they are filled with
the Wizard of OZ attempts to spread FEAR.
?Don?t look, don?t read, be careful?.
Again, Hubbard?s basic rule of thumb is ?Never defend, always attack!? So
TS is doing this completely by posting these lies, over and over. What
exactly is there to be fearful of? I am saying, these are the Web sites I
suggest.
These sites are created by X-Scientologists (Some of whom Scientology took
to court), and critics, most of whom C of $ has now posted on their Hate Web
pages: DUH! By the way, I don?t see ?ol ?Truthseeker? there, do you?
However, even if you are worried about that, just type in
Google, and type in ?Scientology? and read.
It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn?t notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts. The facts, the court doc?
s, are on the Internet, and IF you read up, you shall find out both sides.
Once you do, I suggest you make up your own mind. That?s the best advice
Andreas gave to me in July, 2000, and I still think it is the best. As he
said, ?I don?t think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed. I suggest you read up, study both sides, and decide for
yourself?. I did, and left soon after.
4. TS posts HUGE volumes of lies, over and over again.
Hubbard said, ?It doesn?t matter what you say, if you say
it enough, to enough people, they will begin to believe it?.
He?s right on target there?although I?m not sure how many
People believe him. I?ve noticed one or two people will try to
Cover their Asses saying, ?Well, even if Tory is a ____?
But that has been true since I first began posting.
5. I have noticed he/she basically posts a large majority of what I have
posted since I left Scientology, as if HE thought it up! I left and posted
what the actual goals were of OSA, as I?d been working with them as a
volunteer.
See http://www.torymagoo.org and you can see all the posts I
wrote, and when. At the bottom, under my name, I have posted the year and
month for most. Now he posts the same things, as if it is his. I read very
little of what he posts, but
Others can check and see if he?s used your own words too.
Check it out and see.
6. Last and most important is this OSA op NEVER posts any actual facts about
the abuses of Scientology, as is true of anyone working for OSA. (See their
goals above).
These are sites I suggest reading. They have information and facts and
experiences on them that C of $ doesn?t want you to see. These are only a
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.xenutv.com (videos)
http://www.torymagoo.org (OT 7 Speaks out)
http://www.altreligionscientology.org (Many other great sites
listed here)
http://www.scientologywatch.org
and read up on these abuses, posted by Free Speech Advocates and
X-Scientologists as well.
I cannot say it enough: Study up for yourself. Find out for yourself.
Scientology was built by a mad man: L. Ron Hubbard, who wanted people to
ONLY believe him. He was a liar, a cheap, a wife abuser, a drug taker, and
used medical malpractice to harm many,
Myself included. If you want to read about that, go to
http://www.xenu.net Personal Stories, Tory?s Story and
Read my affidavit. That tells a lot about this organization hiding behind
religion.
I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will agree
with them, ?The critics are all nuts?. I know, as I did for many years! This
is their program, run out of RTC, to stop Free Speech on the Internet. The
facts are unbelievable at first, as I know for me; I was SO Insulated it
truly was just like
?The Truman Show? for me. I suggest you do your own research.
Good luck in your hunt :)
Tory Christman
Aka: Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight!~
Burbank, CA
Aka: Tory Bezazian ( Per Divorce due to leaving)
X-Scientologist after 30 years ?in?
X- OT 7 after 7 years on it
X- Sea Org (briefly, 1971)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X- OSA Int Volunteer for 20 years
X-Staff at CC and AOLA
X-OSA Int Top Secret Internet Mafia Member, until I found out what they
were ~really~ doing and quit.
X- Executive Director of The Scientology Parishioners League
Declared a Suppressive Person (SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from The Church of Scientology *wooo hooooo!!!)
Free at LAST!
DilbertPerkins
2003-11-17 01:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Dave,

"Fair Game" is leveled against more than just former members. Critics,
journalists and other whistleblowers who expose the truth about Scientology are
all potential victims.

"Betrayed" is far to gentle a term for the free-for-all character butchery and
legal warfare that Co$ conducts against its perceived enemies. Although Co$ has
officially cancelled use of the term "Fair Game", it is a thoroughly accurate
term for its practice.

Dave Sweetland wrote:

<< November 16, 2003

Dear Tory,

The words "Fair Game" have been canceled in the COS.

By way of analoigy, in the Roman Catholic Church the words "Holy
Ghost" were cancelled and replaced with "Holy Spirit". The RCC did
this because "Ghost" had come to mean gobblins, Casper the Friendly
Ghost; Haloween; Horror Moveis, etc. All of the "true meaning" behind
Ghost remains exactly as it was before, but the word "spirit" is used.

The Church of Scientology has consistently maintained that BETRAYAL of
former members is part of its Scriptures. It is front and center in
"The AIms of Scientology". "we will never betray your faith in us so
long as you are one of us"!!!! How much more clearly can it be
spelled out?? You may be betrayed if you are a former member. No
surprise here!! This is fully disclosed!!! You have been betrayed,
just like you were told you might be.

Keep in mind also that Scientology is the sole agaency in existence
that can prevent the destruction of civilization or bring about a new
better one.
Keep in mind that the proper attitude for an instructor to take is "we
would rather see you dead tha incapabale".
Keep in mind that Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter 17 March
1965 then titled FAIR GAME LAW - ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS - THE
SOURCE OF THE FAIR GAME LAW was latter reissued as Issue IV, and is
identical to the former issue except the title has been changed to be
only ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS and the sentence "Hence we have
a Fair Game Law." was deleted. In other words, the source of the fair
game law remains while the term has been canceled.

We would all be better off if we simply replace the term "fair game"
with "betrayed". After all "Fair Game" was simply another way of
saying betrayed. What greater betrayal is there tahn to be
"destroyed" especially by ones formerly trusted.

I had a high rankiong Scientology official insist that "we will never
betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us" meant the same
as "we will never betray your faith in us." When I asked her if "I
will never wear a cap meant the same as I will never wear a cap on
Tuesday" her angry response was to refuse to answer and say, "I will
not fal for your tricks, David Sweetland!!!"

Orwelian double think is a nasty thing.

It's probably perfectly legal for the COS to betray every trust any
former member has ever placed by posting all of their files on the
internet. Priest/Penitent privildge is far more for the protection of
the "priest" than the "penitent".

-- Dave Sweetland

805.582.0514 >><BR><BR>

Dilbert Perkins
Los Angeles, CA
Magoo
2003-11-17 06:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Sweetland
November 16, 2003
Dear Tory,
The words "Fair Game" have been canceled in the COS.
Dear Dave....

I can show you the exact policy re this Cancellation, if you care to come
with me and see it. It says, at the bottom of this "Cancellation":
"This Cancellation does NOT apply to SP's".
L. Ron Hubbard.

So was Fair Game Cancelled? Hell No. It was 'cancelled' for PR sake, and NOT
relating to the very people they would ever "Fair Game" (duh).

I know as *I* stood up in courtrooms insisting the same as you just did. I
was sure it had been. When shown the actual Policy, along with getting Fair
Gamed myself for sitting in a Red Santa's Chair (and spending 9 days in
court fighting C of S's top Attorneys who were out for blood)....I realized
I had been con'd along with many other cons I had bought.
Post by Dave Sweetland
By way of analoigy, in the Roman Catholic Church the words "Holy
Ghost" were cancelled and replaced with "Holy Spirit". The RCC did
this because "Ghost" had come to mean gobblins, Casper the Friendly
Ghost; Haloween; Horror Moveis, etc. All of the "true meaning" behind
Ghost remains exactly as it was before, but the word "spirit" is used.
So your point is the 'words' Fair Game have been cancelled but Fair Game has
not? Well, if Hubbard says, "This cancellation does NOT apply to Sp's"..that
isn't a cancellation for you or me or many other supposed "SP's".
Post by Dave Sweetland
The Church of Scientology has consistently maintained that BETRAYAL of
former members is part of its Scriptures. It is front and center in
"The AIms of Scientology". "we will never betray your faith in us so
long as you are one of us"!!!! How much more clearly can it be
spelled out?? You may be betrayed if you are a former member. No
surprise here!! This is fully disclosed!!! You have been betrayed,
just like you were told you might be.
Feeble, Dave, I hate to say. I can see what you are saying. It was never
promoted that way, in fact, there are OTHER policies that say quite the
opposite:
"You can always get your $$$ back if you are unhappy"--total BS.

"The door is ALWAYS open"
Etc.
That IS what is SO insidious about Scientology: One policy says one thing,
the next negates it.
Post by Dave Sweetland
Keep in mind also that Scientology is the sole agaency in existence
that can prevent the destruction of civilization or bring about a new
better one.
Is this what you believe, or what they say? Please make sure to clarify
where you stand on statement such as this, as to just say it sounds like you
believe it.
Post by Dave Sweetland
Keep in mind that the proper attitude for an instructor to take is "we
would rather see you dead tha incapabale".
Keep in mind that Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter 17 March
1965 then titled FAIR GAME LAW - ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS - THE
SOURCE OF THE FAIR GAME LAW was latter reissued as Issue IV, and is
identical to the former issue except the title has been changed to be
only ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS and the sentence "Hence we have
a Fair Game Law." was deleted. In other words, the source of the fair
game law remains while the term has been canceled.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, so they can kill me, but because the word was cancelled, it's
OK?
Post by Dave Sweetland
We would all be better off if we simply replace the term "fair game"
with "betrayed".
I disagree with you there fully, but again, I was Fair Gamed, and I don't
*think* you have been yet.

Fair Game has a lot more to it than betrayed. It's a action. It's a call to
arms to F*** you no matter what. ("You can Lie, cheat steal, DESTOY THEM
UTTERLY")

Betrayal means more to me how I felt when GAT (Golden Age of Tech) came out,
and DM announced in front of skillions, "The OT 7's have been doing it
wrong, and need to go back to GO and begin again. AND PAY FOR IT! After we
had been paying to them for this experiment for 7 years at the tune of
$60,000, or more!) That was betrayal. That wasn't Fair Game. See the
difference?


After all "Fair Game" was simply another way of
Post by Dave Sweetland
saying betrayed.
Nawwwwwwwwww...wait until you are Fair Gamed, I think then you'll see the
difference. I doubt OSA will Fair Game you, for many reasons.


What greater betrayal is there tahn to be
Post by Dave Sweetland
"destroyed" especially by ones formerly trusted.
Well, who was 'destroyed"? Fair Game often fails at destruction, due to
those being Fair Gamed being unwilling to be destroyed.
However, it is a betrayal, sure, yet it is way more than that.
Post by Dave Sweetland
I had a high rankiong Scientology official insist that "we will never
betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us" meant the same
as "we will never betray your faith in us." When I asked her if "I
will never wear a cap meant the same as I will never wear a cap on
Tuesday" her angry response was to refuse to answer and say, "I will
not fal for your tricks, David Sweetland!!!"
Orwelian double think is a nasty thing.
True.
Post by Dave Sweetland
It's probably perfectly legal for the COS to betray every trust any
former member has ever placed by posting all of their files on the
internet.
Legal or not, it's TOTALLY immoral, and this con group hoping SO hard to
become part of mainstream religion will NEVER do so, doing things such as
that. Other religions I've spoken with found that to be just as disgusting
as it is. How utterly pathetic!


Priest/Penitent privildge is far more for the protection of
Post by Dave Sweetland
the "priest" than the "penitent".
You can say that, but I'd love to hear the response if you and I went to
interview 5 Scientologists and told them, "Oh by the way, do you know your
overts/secrets told within a "confidential session" could very well be used
against you IF you
ever leave?"

Don't for a second think using these secrets isn't BIG time making huge
enemies for them.

They are, as I've said since I was in, and since I left, creating their own
enemies.

Tory/Magoo!
(818) 841-3632
Post by Dave Sweetland
-- Dave Sweetland
805.582.0514
Post by Magoo
Here is my response, to this person spreading lies about me daily.
Update: OSA 101 Series, 3 Years Later
When I left the Church <Gack> of Scientology, in July of 2000, I left with
one gigantic secret: I had been a member of their Top Secret OSA
International Internet Secret Mafia. When I left, by the way, I literally
escaped. I was followed to the Airport by their Vice President of
Scientology, met in Chicago by OSA members, and finally assisted out of the
Tampa Airport by the Tampa Police, with a gang of OSA and ?OT?s? there
trying to stop me from leaving.
((For anyone truly new, OSA stands for The Office of Special Affairs and is
the Church of Scientology?s legal and PR department, or so they say. In
truth, this is a story about their dirty Tricks Department, which IS a part
of OSA, which is run by their top Executives in Scientology))
In the mid ?90?s I was asked to ?help? them, my best friend and auditor,
Class 8, OT 7, Senior C/S, Staff member, Bill Yaude. I have written up the
full story about my assistance as a volunteer with OSA in trying to ?handle
the critics? and finally my realizing they were/are actually trying to stop
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
However, I wanted to write an update to this OSA 101 series, as I feel it
is needed.
Since I have left, OSA has tried a number of things, resulting in their
?Fair Game? tactics. While In, I swore this was cancelled, as I believed
what I was told. I am here to tell all, it is most definitely NOT cancelled.
OSA does creepy things all the time to try to stop their critics from
speaking out.
They tried to pin a Criminal Conviction on me for sitting in a Red
Santa?s chair in Clearwater, Fl. (This was something literally I had to go
to court for, they claiming I had violated their feeble Injunction, trying
to stop the critics from picketing around the date of the death of Lisa
McPherson, a Scientologist who died grossly due to their medical
malpractice). I and 14 others and spent 9 days in court fighting with OSA?s
Mike Reinder and many of their top attorneys).
They ended up losing; the Judge ruled it was NOT a criminal Conviction. It
was their worst move for me, as in leaving I had met enough people and heard
the ~true~ stories (Vs Scientology?s lies) to know there is Fair Game.
However, now it not only showed me TRULY there IS Fair Game, they?d Fair
Gamed ME!
They?ve (OSA) tried many other Fair Game actions, including trying to post
many lies about me here on ARS. From the beginning they tried to ?handle?
me, telling me I was ?Too Over restimulated and I needed to take a rest?.
These are their terms to go away and shut up! Obviously I?m still here.
Recently, they came up with a new plan. Now before I go into this, let me re
state what their goals were/are, which I?ve been posting for the last 3
1) Take out Bob Minton and LMT.
2) Black PR the Critics (Post tons of lies about them, so they look and
sound horrible, unbelievable, and distrusted).
3) Finally, post whatever has to be posted so that ARS looks insane, no one
will want to read it, and will leave. (This includes always driving any
?hot? topics off the first page that the general public might see).
I am writing this mostly for the newer people who come onto ARS, as the
regulars have figured this out, long ago.
However, they came up with a new plan, a few months ago. I?m not sure which
thing I did that made DM order to ?Nail Tory? ?but someone named ?Truth
Seeker? has been flat out on that, for some time. Well, he actually also
puts down other critics, and X-Scientologists, but recently he has made many
posts lying about me.
1. Some say he is ?just a troll?. Well, I disagree as he is fully following
OSA?s Plans to the tee. He/she never reads what I say, which is also an OSA
thing: They cannot, really, as they might wake up.
?Post the lie, and move on?.
3. TS never posts ANY facts. If you read his/her posts, they are filled with
the Wizard of OZ attempts to spread FEAR.
?Don?t look, don?t read, be careful?.
Again, Hubbard?s basic rule of thumb is ?Never defend, always attack!? So
TS is doing this completely by posting these lies, over and over. What
exactly is there to be fearful of? I am saying, these are the Web sites I
suggest.
These sites are created by X-Scientologists (Some of whom Scientology took
to court), and critics, most of whom C of $ has now posted on their Hate Web
pages: DUH! By the way, I don?t see ?ol ?Truthseeker? there, do you?
However, even if you are worried about that, just type in
Google, and type in ?Scientology? and read.
It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn?t notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts. The facts, the court doc?
s, are on the Internet, and IF you read up, you shall find out both sides.
Once you do, I suggest you make up your own mind. That?s the best advice
Andreas gave to me in July, 2000, and I still think it is the best. As he
said, ?I don?t think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed. I suggest you read up, study both sides, and decide for
yourself?. I did, and left soon after.
4. TS posts HUGE volumes of lies, over and over again.
Hubbard said, ?It doesn?t matter what you say, if you say
it enough, to enough people, they will begin to believe it?.
He?s right on target there?although I?m not sure how many
People believe him. I?ve noticed one or two people will try to
Cover their Asses saying, ?Well, even if Tory is a ____?
But that has been true since I first began posting.
5. I have noticed he/she basically posts a large majority of what I have
posted since I left Scientology, as if HE thought it up! I left and posted
what the actual goals were of OSA, as I?d been working with them as a
volunteer.
See http://www.torymagoo.org and you can see all the posts
I
Post by Dave Sweetland
Post by Magoo
wrote, and when. At the bottom, under my name, I have posted the year and
month for most. Now he posts the same things, as if it is his. I read very
little of what he posts, but
Others can check and see if he?s used your own words too.
Check it out and see.
6. Last and most important is this OSA op NEVER posts any actual facts about
the abuses of Scientology, as is true of anyone working for OSA. (See their
goals above).
These are sites I suggest reading. They have information and facts and
experiences on them that C of $ doesn?t want you to see. These are only a
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.xenutv.com (videos)
http://www.torymagoo.org (OT 7 Speaks out)
http://www.altreligionscientology.org (Many other great sites
listed here)
http://www.scientologywatch.org
and read up on these abuses, posted by Free Speech Advocates and
X-Scientologists as well.
I cannot say it enough: Study up for yourself. Find out for yourself.
Scientology was built by a mad man: L. Ron Hubbard, who wanted people to
ONLY believe him. He was a liar, a cheap, a wife abuser, a drug taker, and
used medical malpractice to harm many,
Myself included. If you want to read about that, go to
http://www.xenu.net Personal Stories, Tory?s Story and
Read my affidavit. That tells a lot about this organization hiding behind
religion.
I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will agree
with them, ?The critics are all nuts?. I know, as I did for many years! This
is their program, run out of RTC, to stop Free Speech on the Internet. The
facts are unbelievable at first, as I know for me; I was SO Insulated it
truly was just like
?The Truman Show? for me. I suggest you do your own research.
Good luck in your hunt :)
Tory Christman
Aka: Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight!~
Burbank, CA
Aka: Tory Bezazian ( Per Divorce due to leaving)
X-Scientologist after 30 years ?in?
X- OT 7 after 7 years on it
X- Sea Org (briefly, 1971)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X- OSA Int Volunteer for 20 years
X-Staff at CC and AOLA
X-OSA Int Top Secret Internet Mafia Member, until I found out what they
were ~really~ doing and quit.
X- Executive Director of The Scientology Parishioners League
Declared a Suppressive Person (SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from The Church of Scientology *wooo hooooo!!!)
Free at LAST!
Kim P
2003-11-17 15:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Sweetland
November 16, 2003
Dear Tory,
The words "Fair Game" have been canceled in the COS.
By way of analoigy, in the Roman Catholic Church the words "Holy
Ghost" were cancelled and replaced with "Holy Spirit". The RCC did
this because "Ghost" had come to mean gobblins, Casper the Friendly
Ghost; Haloween; Horror Moveis, etc. All of the "true meaning" behind
Ghost remains exactly as it was before, but the word "spirit" is used.
The Church of Scientology has consistently maintained that BETRAYAL of
former members is part of its Scriptures. It is front and center in
"The AIms of Scientology". "we will never betray your faith in us so
long as you are one of us"!!!! How much more clearly can it be
spelled out?? You may be betrayed if you are a former member. No
surprise here!! This is fully disclosed!!! You have been betrayed,
just like you were told you might be.
Keep in mind also that Scientology is the sole agaency in existence
that can prevent the destruction of civilization or bring about a new
better one.
Keep in mind that the proper attitude for an instructor to take is "we
would rather see you dead tha incapabale".
Keep in mind that Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter 17 March
1965 then titled FAIR GAME LAW - ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS - THE
SOURCE OF THE FAIR GAME LAW was latter reissued as Issue IV, and is
identical to the former issue except the title has been changed to be
only ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPRESSIVE ACTS and the sentence "Hence we have
a Fair Game Law." was deleted. In other words, the source of the fair
game law remains while the term has been canceled.
We would all be better off if we simply replace the term "fair game"
with "betrayed". After all "Fair Game" was simply another way of
saying betrayed. What greater betrayal is there tahn to be
"destroyed" especially by ones formerly trusted.
I had a high rankiong Scientology official insist that "we will never
betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us" meant the same
as "we will never betray your faith in us." When I asked her if "I
will never wear a cap meant the same as I will never wear a cap on
Tuesday" her angry response was to refuse to answer and say, "I will
not fal for your tricks, David Sweetland!!!"
Orwelian double think is a nasty thing.
It's probably perfectly legal for the COS to betray every trust any
former member has ever placed by posting all of their files on the
internet. Priest/Penitent privildge is far more for the protection of
the "priest" than the "penitent".
-- Dave Sweetland
805.582.0514
YOu are right Dave - Orwellian doublethink is a nasty thing. As for
priest/penitent relationship - I have a different take on that one -
that relationship MUST be kept sacred ( my hubby is an ordained minister
so perhaps I see this differently). This relationship can not even be
forced by law to be broken. Those who break it are betraying people in
a most horrendous way. It is disgusting that these "ministers" do this
and get away with it. Were any REAL minister do this they would be
severely censured for doing so - including defrocking. It is without a
doubt one of the worst betrayals.

Kim p
Post by Dave Sweetland
Post by Magoo
Here is my response, to this person spreading lies about me daily.
Update: OSA 101 Series, 3 Years Later
When I left the Church <Gack> of Scientology, in July of 2000, I left with
one gigantic secret: I had been a member of their Top Secret OSA
International Internet Secret Mafia. When I left, by the way, I literally
escaped. I was followed to the Airport by their Vice President of
Scientology, met in Chicago by OSA members, and finally assisted out of the
Tampa Airport by the Tampa Police, with a gang of OSA and ?OT?s? there
trying to stop me from leaving.
((For anyone truly new, OSA stands for The Office of Special Affairs and is
the Church of Scientology?s legal and PR department, or so they say. In
truth, this is a story about their dirty Tricks Department, which IS a part
of OSA, which is run by their top Executives in Scientology))
In the mid ?90?s I was asked to ?help? them, my best friend and auditor,
Class 8, OT 7, Senior C/S, Staff member, Bill Yaude. I have written up the
full story about my assistance as a volunteer with OSA in trying to ?handle
the critics? and finally my realizing they were/are actually trying to stop
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
However, I wanted to write an update to this OSA 101 series, as I feel it
is needed.
Since I have left, OSA has tried a number of things, resulting in their
?Fair Game? tactics. While In, I swore this was cancelled, as I believed
what I was told. I am here to tell all, it is most definitely NOT cancelled.
OSA does creepy things all the time to try to stop their critics from
speaking out.
They tried to pin a Criminal Conviction on me for sitting in a Red
Santa?s chair in Clearwater, Fl. (This was something literally I had to go
to court for, they claiming I had violated their feeble Injunction, trying
to stop the critics from picketing around the date of the death of Lisa
McPherson, a Scientologist who died grossly due to their medical
malpractice). I and 14 others and spent 9 days in court fighting with OSA?s
Mike Reinder and many of their top attorneys).
They ended up losing; the Judge ruled it was NOT a criminal Conviction. It
was their worst move for me, as in leaving I had met enough people and heard
the ~true~ stories (Vs Scientology?s lies) to know there is Fair Game.
However, now it not only showed me TRULY there IS Fair Game, they?d Fair
Gamed ME!
They?ve (OSA) tried many other Fair Game actions, including trying to post
many lies about me here on ARS. From the beginning they tried to ?handle?
me, telling me I was ?Too Over restimulated and I needed to take a rest?.
These are their terms to go away and shut up! Obviously I?m still here.
Recently, they came up with a new plan. Now before I go into this, let me re
state what their goals were/are, which I?ve been posting for the last 3
1) Take out Bob Minton and LMT.
2) Black PR the Critics (Post tons of lies about them, so they look and
sound horrible, unbelievable, and distrusted).
3) Finally, post whatever has to be posted so that ARS looks insane, no one
will want to read it, and will leave. (This includes always driving any
?hot? topics off the first page that the general public might see).
I am writing this mostly for the newer people who come onto ARS, as the
regulars have figured this out, long ago.
However, they came up with a new plan, a few months ago. I?m not sure which
thing I did that made DM order to ?Nail Tory? ?but someone named ?Truth
Seeker? has been flat out on that, for some time. Well, he actually also
puts down other critics, and X-Scientologists, but recently he has made many
posts lying about me.
1. Some say he is ?just a troll?. Well, I disagree as he is fully following
OSA?s Plans to the tee. He/she never reads what I say, which is also an OSA
thing: They cannot, really, as they might wake up.
?Post the lie, and move on?.
3. TS never posts ANY facts. If you read his/her posts, they are filled with
the Wizard of OZ attempts to spread FEAR.
?Don?t look, don?t read, be careful?.
Again, Hubbard?s basic rule of thumb is ?Never defend, always attack!? So
TS is doing this completely by posting these lies, over and over. What
exactly is there to be fearful of? I am saying, these are the Web sites I
suggest.
These sites are created by X-Scientologists (Some of whom Scientology took
to court), and critics, most of whom C of $ has now posted on their Hate Web
pages: DUH! By the way, I don?t see ?ol ?Truthseeker? there, do you?
However, even if you are worried about that, just type in
Google, and type in ?Scientology? and read.
It seemed soon after I began posting ~that~, TS began working to spam
Google. Maybe he was from the beginning, however I didn?t notice it until
recently. Even so, people can find out the facts. The facts, the court doc?
s, are on the Internet, and IF you read up, you shall find out both sides.
Once you do, I suggest you make up your own mind. That?s the best advice
Andreas gave to me in July, 2000, and I still think it is the best. As he
said, ?I don?t think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed. I suggest you read up, study both sides, and decide for
yourself?. I did, and left soon after.
4. TS posts HUGE volumes of lies, over and over again.
Hubbard said, ?It doesn?t matter what you say, if you say
it enough, to enough people, they will begin to believe it?.
He?s right on target there?although I?m not sure how many
People believe him. I?ve noticed one or two people will try to
Cover their Asses saying, ?Well, even if Tory is a ____?
But that has been true since I first began posting.
5. I have noticed he/she basically posts a large majority of what I have
posted since I left Scientology, as if HE thought it up! I left and posted
what the actual goals were of OSA, as I?d been working with them as a
volunteer.
See http://www.torymagoo.org and you can see all the posts I
wrote, and when. At the bottom, under my name, I have posted the year and
month for most. Now he posts the same things, as if it is his. I read very
little of what he posts, but
Others can check and see if he?s used your own words too.
Check it out and see.
6. Last and most important is this OSA op NEVER posts any actual facts about
the abuses of Scientology, as is true of anyone working for OSA. (See their
goals above).
These are sites I suggest reading. They have information and facts and
experiences on them that C of $ doesn?t want you to see. These are only a
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.xenutv.com (videos)
http://www.torymagoo.org (OT 7 Speaks out)
http://www.altreligionscientology.org (Many other great sites
listed here)
http://www.scientologywatch.org
and read up on these abuses, posted by Free Speech Advocates and
X-Scientologists as well.
I cannot say it enough: Study up for yourself. Find out for yourself.
Scientology was built by a mad man: L. Ron Hubbard, who wanted people to
ONLY believe him. He was a liar, a cheap, a wife abuser, a drug taker, and
used medical malpractice to harm many,
Myself included. If you want to read about that, go to
http://www.xenu.net Personal Stories, Tory?s Story and
Read my affidavit. That tells a lot about this organization hiding behind
religion.
I wish you well. Again, Scientology wants to confuse you so you will agree
with them, ?The critics are all nuts?. I know, as I did for many years! This
is their program, run out of RTC, to stop Free Speech on the Internet. The
facts are unbelievable at first, as I know for me; I was SO Insulated it
truly was just like
?The Truman Show? for me. I suggest you do your own research.
Good luck in your hunt :)
Tory Christman
Aka: Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight!~
Burbank, CA
Aka: Tory Bezazian ( Per Divorce due to leaving)
X-Scientologist after 30 years ?in?
X- OT 7 after 7 years on it
X- Sea Org (briefly, 1971)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X- OSA Int Volunteer for 20 years
X-Staff at CC and AOLA
X-OSA Int Top Secret Internet Mafia Member, until I found out what they
were ~really~ doing and quit.
X- Executive Director of The Scientology Parishioners League
Declared a Suppressive Person (SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from The Church of Scientology *wooo hooooo!!!)
Free at LAST!
Dave Sweetland
2003-11-24 20:03:51 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Kim P
I had a high ranking Scientology official insist that "we will never
betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us" meant the same
as "we will never betray your faith in us." When I asked her if "I
will never wear a cap meant the same as I will never wear a cap on
Tuesday" her angry response was to refuse to answer and say, "I will
not fall for your tricks, David Sweetland!!!"
Orwelian double think is a nasty thing.
It's probably perfectly legal for the COS to betray every trust any
former member has ever placed by posting all of their files on the
internet. Priest/Penitent privildge is far more for the protection of
the "priest" than the "penitent".
-- Dave Sweetland
805.582.0514
YOu are right Dave - Orwellian doublethink is a nasty thing. As for
priest/penitent relationship - I have a different take on that one -
that relationship MUST be kept sacred ( my hubby is an ordained minister
so perhaps I see this differently). This relationship can not even be
forced by law to be broken. Those who break it are betraying people in
a most horrendous way. It is disgusting that these "ministers" do this
and get away with it. Were any REAL minister do this they would be
severely censured for doing so - including defrocking. It is without a
doubt one of the worst betrayals.
Kim p
November 24, 2003

Dear Kim,

By a REAL minister, I assume you mean in the Abrahamic tradition
(Judeo0Christian-Islaamic). I agree.

Let me clarify my position on my "Priest/Penitent" comment. It was a
little "over the top" for me to say it is perfectly legal for the COS
to post aperson's private information on the internet. There are
adequate laws on the books in all countries regarding libel, slander,
defamation of charcter, alienation of affection, etc. that would make
intentional pain inflicted on a person illegal.

My point (which I did not make) was that one should not assume that
ones "private information" is protected in the traditional
"priest/pennitent" Judeo-Christian tradition.
I fully agree that the traditional "priest/penitent" ralationship is
one of the most sacred that there is. Christian stories of
ministers protecting their parishoners with their lives rather than
betray confidence are numerous.

The "Scientology religion" advises its "parishoners" that "we will
never betray you faith in us so long as you are one of us". The legal
release signed at the beginning of each "service" that anything you
disclose you give up any and all rights to and becomes ine effect
property of the COS!!r.

They give confidentiality lip service for pragmatic PR purposes, but
this is not supported by the "Scriptures" of L. Ron Hubbard nor the
"quasi-legal contract:" . Even L. Ron Hubbard's Auditor's Code
states that the auditor will not disclose the information "for
personal gain". If the auditor discloses something for "altruistic
reasons" (such as saving humanity from the evil machinations of a
declared suppressive person) that would be altruistic and therefore
NOT a violation of the Auditor's Code.

This topic is more than academic to me. In the spring of 1979 when
the first Julie Christopherson" trial was getting under way, I
accepted the assignment of reviewing all of her confidential folders.
This is called a "Folder Error Summary" (FES). When I expressed some
momentary shock that this was being done for use in the trial I was
advised that I did not have to do it. I agreed to do it.

When I discovered that the files had already been reviewed by a
non-Scientologist -( the file was perfectly neat and consistent it was
backwards and the various reports worksheets - examiners report -
auditors report and summary report and not in propers sequence) I was
advised that the attorneys had done it.

The purpose of the FES was to find any dirt that could be used in
court or just to taunt or harass her. As an auditor who had
literally thousands of hours "in the chair" this betrayal grated on
"my soul" , but I rationalized it by convincing myself that "the end
justifies the means". (i.e. The very survival of all humanity
depended on Scientology, and I could not let one "supressive person"
block that.

"Caveat Emptor" (let the buyer beware) is the rule as far as religion
goes.

The COS has a "betrayal" policy. "We will never betray your faith is
us so long as you are one of us." It also has a family destruction
policy (disconnection). The COS is becoming more aware of the "PR"
problem that exists with both of these so it implements them as rarely
as possible, but they are both parts of the "Scriptures" as written by
L. Ron Hubbard and are therefore unalterable.

My own daughter was shown many if not all of the letters marked
"Private and Privildged" that I wrotet to the COS hierarchy between
March 1996 and 2000). I assume that anything from my past that could
in any way "run me down" has been disclosed to my daughter and son as
well.

Summary: Anyone who "goes to confession" in the COS and thnks that
their privacy is protected under traditional "priest/penitent"
privildge is mistaken. Their privacy is protected by the
impracticality of a church making an open and obvious mockery of
privildged communication; by the PR problems this would cause; and by
the threat of law suit under libel, slander, defimation of character,
alienation of affection. While I am not an attorney I can read. The
Church of Scientology Apllication, Enrollment, and Release states
clealry that you give up all rights to any inforamtion disclosed. The
publiuc document "The AIms of Scientology" states clearly that L. Ron
Hubbard's Church of Scientology reserves the right to betray those who
are no longer considered "one of us".

Dave Sweetland
P.O. Box 940397
SImi Valley, CA 93094

805.377.1703

P.S. In this thread as well, thank you to all of you who have
responded to me in writing, by phone, and by e-mail. That applies
also to the few of you who may be working for OSA. I don't really
care. If you are lying to me, that is your problem, not mine. I do
not ask anyone (except one of the first) if they are still a member
of the COS or not. Some people choose to disclose that, some not.
Some may be lying, but if so.... it's the lying to themselves that is
damaging. I respect your privacy, even if L. Ron Hubbard and his
COS do not respect mine.
<snip>
Warrior
2003-11-24 21:18:43 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@posting.google.com>,
Dave Sweetland says...
Post by Dave Sweetland
The "Scientology religion" advises its "parishoners" that "we will
never betray you faith in us so long as you are one of us".
This line is from "The Aims of Scientology", which is online at:
http://www.freedommag.org/english/LA/issue01/page20.htm

Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Kim P
2003-11-25 13:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Sweetland
<snip>
Post by Kim P
I had a high ranking Scientology official insist that "we will never
betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us" meant the same
as "we will never betray your faith in us." When I asked her if "I
will never wear a cap meant the same as I will never wear a cap on
Tuesday" her angry response was to refuse to answer and say, "I will
not fall for your tricks, David Sweetland!!!"
Orwelian double think is a nasty thing.
It's probably perfectly legal for the COS to betray every trust any
former member has ever placed by posting all of their files on the
internet. Priest/Penitent privildge is far more for the protection of
the "priest" than the "penitent".
-- Dave Sweetland
805.582.0514
YOu are right Dave - Orwellian doublethink is a nasty thing. As for
priest/penitent relationship - I have a different take on that one -
that relationship MUST be kept sacred ( my hubby is an ordained minister
so perhaps I see this differently). This relationship can not even be
forced by law to be broken. Those who break it are betraying people in
a most horrendous way. It is disgusting that these "ministers" do this
and get away with it. Were any REAL minister do this they would be
severely censured for doing so - including defrocking. It is without a
doubt one of the worst betrayals.
Kim p
November 24, 2003
Dear Kim,
By a REAL minister, I assume you mean in the Abrahamic tradition
(Judeo0Christian-Islaamic). I agree.
Let me clarify my position on my "Priest/Penitent" comment. It was a
little "over the top" for me to say it is perfectly legal for the COS
to post aperson's private information on the internet. There are
adequate laws on the books in all countries regarding libel, slander,
defamation of charcter, alienation of affection, etc. that would make
intentional pain inflicted on a person illegal.
My point (which I did not make) was that one should not assume that
ones "private information" is protected in the traditional
"priest/pennitent" Judeo-Christian tradition.
I fully agree that the traditional "priest/penitent" ralationship is
one of the most sacred that there is. Christian stories of
ministers protecting their parishoners with their lives rather than
betray confidence are numerous.
The "Scientology religion" advises its "parishoners" that "we will
never betray you faith in us so long as you are one of us". The legal
release signed at the beginning of each "service" that anything you
disclose you give up any and all rights to and becomes ine effect
property of the COS!!r.
They give confidentiality lip service for pragmatic PR purposes, but
this is not supported by the "Scriptures" of L. Ron Hubbard nor the
"quasi-legal contract:" . Even L. Ron Hubbard's Auditor's Code
states that the auditor will not disclose the information "for
personal gain". If the auditor discloses something for "altruistic
reasons" (such as saving humanity from the evil machinations of a
declared suppressive person) that would be altruistic and therefore
NOT a violation of the Auditor's Code.
This topic is more than academic to me. In the spring of 1979 when
the first Julie Christopherson" trial was getting under way, I
accepted the assignment of reviewing all of her confidential folders.
This is called a "Folder Error Summary" (FES). When I expressed some
momentary shock that this was being done for use in the trial I was
advised that I did not have to do it. I agreed to do it.
When I discovered that the files had already been reviewed by a
non-Scientologist -( the file was perfectly neat and consistent it was
backwards and the various reports worksheets - examiners report -
auditors report and summary report and not in propers sequence) I was
advised that the attorneys had done it.
The purpose of the FES was to find any dirt that could be used in
court or just to taunt or harass her. As an auditor who had
literally thousands of hours "in the chair" this betrayal grated on
"my soul" , but I rationalized it by convincing myself that "the end
justifies the means". (i.e. The very survival of all humanity
depended on Scientology, and I could not let one "supressive person"
block that.
"Caveat Emptor" (let the buyer beware) is the rule as far as religion
goes.
The COS has a "betrayal" policy. "We will never betray your faith is
us so long as you are one of us." It also has a family destruction
policy (disconnection). The COS is becoming more aware of the "PR"
problem that exists with both of these so it implements them as rarely
as possible, but they are both parts of the "Scriptures" as written by
L. Ron Hubbard and are therefore unalterable.
My own daughter was shown many if not all of the letters marked
"Private and Privildged" that I wrotet to the COS hierarchy between
March 1996 and 2000). I assume that anything from my past that could
in any way "run me down" has been disclosed to my daughter and son as
well.
Summary: Anyone who "goes to confession" in the COS and thnks that
their privacy is protected under traditional "priest/penitent"
privildge is mistaken. Their privacy is protected by the
impracticality of a church making an open and obvious mockery of
privildged communication; by the PR problems this would cause; and by
the threat of law suit under libel, slander, defimation of character,
alienation of affection. While I am not an attorney I can read. The
Church of Scientology Apllication, Enrollment, and Release states
clealry that you give up all rights to any inforamtion disclosed. The
publiuc document "The AIms of Scientology" states clearly that L. Ron
Hubbard's Church of Scientology reserves the right to betray those who
are no longer considered "one of us".
Dave Sweetland
P.O. Box 940397
SImi Valley, CA 93094
805.377.1703
P.S. In this thread as well, thank you to all of you who have
responded to me in writing, by phone, and by e-mail. That applies
also to the few of you who may be working for OSA. I don't really
care. If you are lying to me, that is your problem, not mine. I do
not ask anyone (except one of the first) if they are still a member
of the COS or not. Some people choose to disclose that, some not.
Some may be lying, but if so.... it's the lying to themselves that is
damaging. I respect your privacy, even if L. Ron Hubbard and his
COS do not respect mine.
<snip>
Thanks Dave for clarify that. Your responses are well thought out and
honest. They are much appreciated.

Your explanation is a "keeper". The whole idea that one can sign away
ones basic right to privacy in he COS is repugnant and dangerous IMHO.

Keep posting - your insights as an ex-member are valuable.

Kim P

Dave Sweetland
2003-11-17 01:20:44 UTC
Permalink
November 16, 2003

Dear Truth Seeker,

Please do tell what web site it is that Tory wants me to go check out.
I would like to do that and judge for myself what it has to say. I
have not called Tory to ask her this, but I could if I wanted to.

This is very strange "Truth Seeker". You are a critic of the COS and
claim that Tory is actually working against you and other legitimate
critics such as myself????

I don't get it. Could you please explain this to me?

Also, I know Tory. We have had some lively conversations and
disagreements regarding our Scientology experiences and the shunning
("disconnection") that we have both experienced. I don't always agree
with everything Tory says, but in my opinion, her convictions are deep
seated and sincere. Her actions speak louder tan her words, but are
consistent with her words.

You (Sir, Ma'am, or Committee) hide behind the false name "Truth
Seeker".
Try "telling the truth" . Finding the truth wil then be easier.

Dave Sweetland

805.582.0514
Post by Truth Seeker
OSA wants to get the reader's attention out of this newsgroup and
onto a web site that was designed to discredit the critics of
Scientology, NOT Scientology. The effect they are after once you log
onto a OSA created and controlled web site is 1. To track the reader's
location 2. To have the reader come to one or more of the following
1. They don't know what there are talking about.
2. They are liars.
3. They are SP's just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his lectures from
the PTS/SP course.
4. They are mentally ill just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.
5. They are at 1.1 on the Tone Scale just like L. Ron Hubbard said in
the book "Science of Survival".
6. They are lowlifes or perverts like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.
7. They are religious bigots.
This is the desired end result the Church of Scientology wants
and it's a lot easier for them to accomplish it if they can get the
reader off this newsgroup and on to one of their web sites.
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
DilbertPerkins
2003-11-17 01:33:06 UTC
Permalink
That's gotta hurt!

Thanks, Dave.

Dave Sweetland wrote:
<< Try "telling the truth" . Finding the truth wil then be easier. >>


Dilbert Perkins
Los Angeles, CA
Truth Seeker
2003-11-17 03:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Why Tory wants you to leave this newsgroup and go to a web site:


OSA wants to get the reader's attention out of this newsgroup and
onto a web site that was designed to discredit the critics of
Scientology, NOT Scientology. The effect they are after once you log
onto a OSA created and controlled web site is 1. To track the reader's
location 2. To have the reader come to one or more of the following
conclusions about the critics of Scientology:


1. They don't know what there are talking about.

2. They are liars.

3. They are SP's just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his lectures from
the PTS/SP course.

4. They are mentally ill just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.

5. They are at 1.1 on the Tone Scale just like L. Ron Hubbard said in
the book "Science of Survival".

6. They are lowlifes or perverts like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.

7. They are religious bigots.

This is the desired end result the Church of Scientology wants
and it's a lot easier for them to accomplish it if they can get the
reader off this newsgroup and on to one of their web sites.



Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Phil Scott
2003-11-17 04:21:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Sweetland
November 16, 2003
Dear Truth Seeker,
Please do tell what web site it is that Tory wants me to go check out.
I would like to do that and judge for myself what it has to say. I
have not called Tory to ask her this, but I could if I wanted to.
This is very strange "Truth Seeker". You are a critic of the COS and
claim that Tory is actually working against you and other legitimate
critics such as myself????
The real Tory has been captured and vacuum bagged by the Marcab
invasion fleet and is being used as a back stop in Rollies Bowling alley
now...what you see posting is a Marcab *clone of Tory now turned against
scientology ..... obviously tooth sucker is totally correct.

Phil Scott
Post by Dave Sweetland
I don't get it. Could you please explain this to me?
Also, I know Tory. We have had some lively conversations and
disagreements regarding our Scientology experiences and the shunning
("disconnection") that we have both experienced. I don't always agree
with everything Tory says, but in my opinion, her convictions are deep
seated and sincere. Her actions speak louder tan her words, but are
consistent with her words.
You (Sir, Ma'am, or Committee) hide behind the false name "Truth
Seeker".
Try "telling the truth" . Finding the truth wil then be easier.
Dave Sweetland
805.582.0514
Post by Truth Seeker
OSA wants to get the reader's attention out of this newsgroup and
onto a web site that was designed to discredit the critics of
Scientology, NOT Scientology. The effect they are after once you log
onto a OSA created and controlled web site is 1. To track the reader's
location 2. To have the reader come to one or more of the following
1. They don't know what there are talking about.
2. They are liars.
3. They are SP's just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his lectures from
the PTS/SP course.
4. They are mentally ill just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.
5. They are at 1.1 on the Tone Scale just like L. Ron Hubbard said in
the book "Science of Survival".
6. They are lowlifes or perverts like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.
7. They are religious bigots.
This is the desired end result the Church of Scientology wants
and it's a lot easier for them to accomplish it if they can get the
reader off this newsgroup and on to one of their web sites.
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Truth Seeker
2003-11-17 15:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Why Tory wants you to leave this newsgroup and go to a web site:


OSA wants to get the reader's attention out of this newsgroup and
onto a web site that was designed to discredit the critics of
Scientology, NOT Scientology. The effect they are after once you log
onto a OSA created and controlled web site is 1. To track the reader's
location 2. To have the reader come to one or more of the following
conclusions about the critics of Scientology:


1. They don't know what there are talking about.

2. They are liars.

3. They are SP's just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his lectures from
the PTS/SP course.

4. They are mentally ill just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.

5. They are at 1.1 on the Tone Scale just like L. Ron Hubbard said in
the book "Science of Survival".

6. They are lowlifes or perverts like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.

7. They are religious bigots.

This is the desired end result the Church of Scientology wants
and it's a lot easier for them to accomplish it if they can get the
reader off this newsgroup and on to one of their web sites.



Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Magoo
2003-11-17 21:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Scott
Post by Dave Sweetland
November 16, 2003
Dear Truth Seeker,
Please do tell what web site it is that Tory wants me to go check out.
I would like to do that and judge for myself what it has to say. I
have not called Tory to ask her this, but I could if I wanted to.
This is very strange "Truth Seeker". You are a critic of the COS and
claim that Tory is actually working against you and other legitimate
critics such as myself????
The real Tory has been captured and vacuum bagged by the Marcab
invasion fleet and is being used as a back stop in Rollies Bowling alley
now...what you see posting is a Marcab *clone of Tory now turned against
scientology ..... obviously tooth sucker is totally correct.
Phil Scott
FLASH ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE BACKSTOP AT ROLLIES BOWLING ALLEY:

That is THE funniest thing I've read all week! The bowling balls keep a
comin, but I'm enjoying the view.

((Quick! Quick! Marcab affiliates....decode that one !!!)))

:)
Tory/Magoo!~
Post by Phil Scott
Post by Dave Sweetland
I don't get it. Could you please explain this to me?
Also, I know Tory. We have had some lively conversations and
disagreements regarding our Scientology experiences and the shunning
("disconnection") that we have both experienced. I don't always agree
with everything Tory says, but in my opinion, her convictions are deep
seated and sincere. Her actions speak louder tan her words, but are
consistent with her words.
You (Sir, Ma'am, or Committee) hide behind the false name "Truth
Seeker".
Try "telling the truth" . Finding the truth wil then be easier.
Dave Sweetland
805.582.0514
Post by Truth Seeker
OSA wants to get the reader's attention out of this newsgroup and
onto a web site that was designed to discredit the critics of
Scientology, NOT Scientology. The effect they are after once you log
onto a OSA created and controlled web site is 1. To track the reader's
location 2. To have the reader come to one or more of the following
1. They don't know what there are talking about.
2. They are liars.
3. They are SP's just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his lectures from
the PTS/SP course.
4. They are mentally ill just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.
5. They are at 1.1 on the Tone Scale just like L. Ron Hubbard said in
the book "Science of Survival".
6. They are lowlifes or perverts like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books
and lectures.
7. They are religious bigots.
This is the desired end result the Church of Scientology wants
and it's a lot easier for them to accomplish it if they can get the
reader off this newsgroup and on to one of their web sites.
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
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