Discussion:
To those Lurking
(too old to reply)
Magoo
2003-11-29 20:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.

You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be helpful,
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.

When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology for
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd been
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with Class 8,
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA
Int Top Secret Internet Mafia:
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)

I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to "Help"
them.

Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I was, in
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.

The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~

My suggestion now is this:
Read. Look. Study.

There is TONS of information here on the Internet.

Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves from
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what actually
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.

Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots of
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.

I say exactly what Andreas said to me, that helped me greatly:
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are misinformed."

Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare Faced
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's taken me
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on Cults.
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR you
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and make
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side, and
they're massively loosing on that one.

Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having access to
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.

Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his own
name scare you.

I know it's not working, from those I speak with.

Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to do or
not do.

--
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years
Out for 3 years, 4 months happily
For thinking and speaking my mind, I am:
Declared SP (SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from C of S (Woooo hoooo!) :)
A Free Speech Advocate!
Free at last!!!

For more information, please see:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org

***@att.net
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
Magoo
2003-11-29 20:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Magoo:
Tory Christman
Burbank, CA
X-Scientologist after 30 years In
X-OT 7 after 7 years on the level
X-Sea Org (Briefly)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X-OSA Int volunteer in PR for 20 years
X-Staff at AOLA and CC
X-Member of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet Mafia run by Gavino and
volunteers by Bill Yaude--until I connected the dots and then left!
X-Executive Director of Scientology Parishioners League
X-Wife of Harold Bezazian (Divorced after I left C of $ after 27 years of
happy marriage).

For thinking and speaking my mind, I am now, as I said in my post a declared
SP, which I've found out since I left is just one more means to control
people. Most of your dear friends and people you very much respected are OUT
of C of $.....and declared SP.

OSA has spread big lies about me, and most people you have heard about. I
know as I went to meet each one, and they're TOTALLY different than OSA
said.

If you have any courage left, please call me and at least have the GUTS to
ask me if it's true!

I wish you all well....
I congratulate you on having the courage to even come to ARS.
Also, make sure to check out the message boards of
http://www.xenu.net
There are nice people there too,
and around the Internet. OSA is there too, trying to stop you, confuse you,
make you think we're all "Nuts". We are not.
Their biggest mistake is counting on you all being stupid, which of course
you are not.
I told them when I was in, "You are creating your own enemies" and I've
continued to tell them this since I've left.
They are. If they were not, you wouldn't be reading this line.

Be well,

Tory/Magoo!
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be helpful,
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology for
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd been
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with Class 8,
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to "Help"
them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I was, in
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves from
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what actually
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots of
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are misinformed."
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare Faced
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's taken me
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on Cults.
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR you
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and make
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side, and
they're massively loosing on that one.
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having access to
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his own
name scare you.
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to do or
not do.
--
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years
Out for 3 years, 4 months happily
Declared SP (SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from C of S (Woooo hoooo!) :)
A Free Speech Advocate!
Free at last!!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
Phil Scott
2003-11-30 23:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
Tory Christman
Burbank, CA
X-Scientologist after 30 years In
X-OT 7 after 7 years on the level
X-Sea Org (Briefly)
X-Grad 4, Flag Trained and Interned Security Checker
X-OSA Int volunteer in PR for 20 years
X-Staff at AOLA and CC
X-Member of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet Mafia run by Gavino and
volunteers by Bill Yaude--until I connected the dots and then left!
X-Executive Director of Scientology Parishioners League
X-Wife of Harold Bezazian (Divorced after I left C of $ after 27 years of
happy marriage).
For thinking and speaking my mind, I am now, as I said in my post a declared
SP, which I've found out since I left is just one more means to control
people. Most of your dear friends and people you very much respected are OUT
of C of $.....and declared SP.
OSA has spread big lies about me, and most people you have heard about. I
know as I went to meet each one, and they're TOTALLY different than OSA
said.
If you have any courage left, please call me and at least have the GUTS to
ask me if it's true!
Tory...you are starting on your 'hard core mad as hell phase' of critical
evolution.... You'll love it, massive gains are made at that level. It
just keeps getting better.

I am too amped up just now to write my next post on the breathlessly
transcendent value of picketing alone! What a discovery.

I will be phrasing those insights in Hubbards terms.... alone ones focus it
totally extroverted especially if you are being 'handled'...then with
complete truth comes power as you already know...internal,
external...influence ... and its all good. Evil doesn't stand in the face
of that, it collapses if any other decent person is around, but not one on
your side....the person with the shred of decency left *must be on the other
side... humor and life sprout from the ashes.

Paired or in groups ....people it seems, form a morass of dullness inside
thier own loop focus...compromise and agreements....

We did have a similar transcendent experience though as 11 of us stood in
the pouring rain in the dark holding candles and our signs high in dead and
still silence. See? an extroversion. It was absolute magic. There
was anger but no hostility...we just stood there..... the earth shook... the
cult turned out its lights and signs and fled upstairs ...as 11 dark figures
stood in the dark and pouring rain...dead still and silent.


Picketing alone if done your style, with humor, honesty and integrity and
respect will rock your world too.




Phil Scott
Post by Magoo
I wish you all well....
I congratulate you on having the courage to even come to ARS.
Also, make sure to check out the message boards of
http://www.xenu.net
There are nice people there too,
and around the Internet. OSA is there too, trying to stop you, confuse you,
make you think we're all "Nuts". We are not.
Their biggest mistake is counting on you all being stupid, which of course
you are not.
I told them when I was in, "You are creating your own enemies" and I've
continued to tell them this since I've left.
They are. If they were not, you wouldn't be reading this line.
Be well,
Tory/Magoo!
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be
helpful,
Post by Magoo
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology
for
Post by Magoo
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd been
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with
Class
Post by Magoo
8,
Post by Magoo
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to "Help"
them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I was, in
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves from
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what
actually
Post by Magoo
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots
of
Post by Magoo
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed."
Post by Magoo
Post by Magoo
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare Faced
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's taken me
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on
Cults.
Post by Magoo
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR
you
Post by Magoo
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and
make
Post by Magoo
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side,
and
Post by Magoo
they're massively loosing on that one.
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having
access
Post by Magoo
to
Post by Magoo
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his
own
Post by Magoo
name scare you.
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to do or
not do.
--
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years
Out for 3 years, 4 months happily
Declared SP (SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from C of S (Woooo hoooo!) :)
A Free Speech Advocate!
Free at last!!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
Zinj
2003-12-01 00:04:13 UTC
Permalink
In article <bqdueb$v02$***@news.tdl.com>, ***@philscott.net
says...
Post by Phil Scott
Tory...you are starting on your 'hard core mad as hell phase' of critical
evolution.... You'll love it, massive gains are made at that level. It
just keeps getting better.
I think that's a dubious proposition, although some version may
be inevitable.

Without a doubt the 'What *was* I thinking?' stage has
consistently been superior to the 'mad as hell' stage, although
an element of 'mad as hell' has and should be an appropriate
reaction to Scientology. The problem is that ex-scientologists
tend to judo themselves in the MAH stage into exactly the mirror
image of their previous 'system'.

A morph of Scientology 'attack tech' with merely a change in
enemy is worse than worthless.

Anger is a justified response to Scientology abuse and lies, but
it's a singularly worthless one, and one that inevitably serves
the Cult itself, since it is playing on *their* field. Humor and
goodwill on the other hand, is a whole different ballpark. One
that the Cult can't play in.
Post by Phil Scott
Picketing alone if done your style, with humor, honesty and integrity and
respect will rock your world too.
Picketing alone has been, and remains a particularly 'bad idea',
unless *other* witnesses are present, such as in your picket.

Jesus Christ Himself could picket a Scientology Org alone, but,
unless He had witnesses, it would become a 'net win' for the
Cult, which has no compunctions about lying, and has the
'organized' element of 'organized crime' down pat.

It misses the point too. Picketing is only to a *minimal* extent
for the benefit of the staff and OSA handlers, or even for the
Scientology 'Publics'. It *is* for the benefit of the 'public at
large', who very likely already have a negative opinion of
Scientology, but in many cases don't know why.

Picketing is fun. But picketing for fun isn't the point.
Picketing is effective, but it's only marginally effective with
Scientologists, and the main thrust is *always* to inform the
wog public, not to convert the deluded. (who will *not* be
converted, although they may gain some sane cracks in their
Hubbardian armor.

Picketing is fun, but it's not a game. Picketing alone is just
*asking* for it, and requires much better preparation and more
witnesses than picketing with even one single other person.

You could ask Keith Henson, but, I'm still not sure it's a
lesson he's learned :)

Zinj
--
Scientology® - Deliberately killing no more than 0.5 percent of
its members since 1953
Ball of Fluff
2003-11-29 23:06:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be helpful,
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology for
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd been
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with Class 8,
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to "Help"
them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I was, in
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves from
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what actually
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots of
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are misinformed."
I'm glad he's changed on that. When I was first posting here his posts to me
reflected a very different viewpoint and were often quite cutting. I assume
that he either did not feel that way then or that he did but thought I was
an operative. Not being sarcastic- it's just a plain fact that if one thinks
another person's an operative it's very hard to "grant them beingness", so
to speak.

Church members are mainly uninformed. Most really don't know the stuff the
church does.

But the misinformation of which Andreas speaks comes into play with the
stuff the church says about all critics being bad and destructive. Anyone in
a "squirrel group" being bad, destructive, messing it all up, etc.

So both things come into play.
Post by Magoo
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare Faced
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's taken me
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on Cults.
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR you
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and make
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side, and
they're massively loosing on that one.
Those books are fair. But they do contain some inaccuracies. Ken Urquhart, a
former CofS exec (he designed and set up the RPF) who is now out of CofS and
in the indie Scn scene has written some good articles analyzing one of those
books. Forget which one.

But they still are more accurate than the church's farrago of fairytales or
flat out omission of very key facts about very unsavory and illegal
practices that happen on an on going basis.
Post by Magoo
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having access to
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.
No, but there was a time when he would have totally dug it.
Post by Magoo
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his own
name scare you.
Well, we also have a lot of critics who post anonymously. I personally
wouldn't use the anonymity thing against the person.

But we can see what Truthseeker's agenda is by what he posts. And it ain't
pretty.
Post by Magoo
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to do or
not do.
Yes. For a long time I compromised myself. Yes, I did not know about a lot
of things that go on in CofS, but I did hear bits and pieces. Moreover, I
experienced some rather unpleasant things that did send up red flags in the
old noggin. But I did not pay attention to those for a while.The church had
an explanation for all of 'em.

'Cept they didn't *really*. If one were to objectively look at what one's
told in CofS- the various yellow journalism and bitching about critics,
psychs, or various rationalizations- really objectively- one can see that
they're not really explaining anything.

C
Magoo
2003-11-30 09:09:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be
helpful,
Post by Magoo
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology
for
Post by Magoo
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd been
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with
Class
Post by Magoo
8,
Post by Magoo
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to "Help"
them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I was, in
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves from
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what
actually
Post by Magoo
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots
of
Post by Magoo
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed."
Post by Magoo
I'm glad he's changed on that. When I was first posting here his posts to me
reflected a very different viewpoint and were often quite cutting. I assume
that he either did not feel that way then or that he did but thought I was
an operative. Not being sarcastic- it's just a plain fact that if one thinks
another person's an operative it's very hard to "grant them beingness", so
to speak.
Church members are mainly uninformed. Most really don't know the stuff the
church does.
But the misinformation of which Andreas speaks comes into play with the
stuff the church says about all critics being bad and destructive. Anyone in
a "squirrel group" being bad, destructive, messing it all up, etc.
So both things come into play.
Post by Magoo
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare Faced
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's taken me
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on
Cults.
Post by Magoo
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR
you
Post by Magoo
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and
make
Post by Magoo
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side,
and
Post by Magoo
they're massively loosing on that one.
Those books are fair. But they do contain some inaccuracies. Ken Urquhart, a
former CofS exec (he designed and set up the RPF) who is now out of CofS and
in the indie Scn scene has written some good articles analyzing one of those
books. Forget which one.
But they still are more accurate than the church's farrago of fairytales or
flat out omission of very key facts about very unsavory and illegal
practices that happen on an on going basis.
Post by Magoo
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having
access
Post by Magoo
to
Post by Magoo
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.
No, but there was a time when he would have totally dug it.
Post by Magoo
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his
own
Post by Magoo
name scare you.
Well, we also have a lot of critics who post anonymously. I personally
wouldn't use the anonymity thing against the person.
But we can see what Truthseeker's agenda is by what he posts. And it ain't
pretty.
Post by Magoo
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to do or
not do.
Yes. For a long time I compromised myself. Yes, I did not know about a lot
of things that go on in CofS, but I did hear bits and pieces. Moreover, I
experienced some rather unpleasant things that did send up red flags in the
old noggin. But I did not pay attention to those for a while.The church had
an explanation for all of 'em.
'Cept they didn't *really*. If one were to objectively look at what one's
told in CofS- the various yellow journalism and bitching about critics,
psychs, or various rationalizations- really objectively- one can see that
they're not really explaining anything.
C
Claire...

Thanks for the in put. Yes, I'm sure many people change while here on ARS.
I know I have. I know you have. I'm not surprised Andreas has :) Isn't that
cool, too!
As far as the anonomous...I'm not holding that against anyone. The
anonymous critics I know don't try to scare people into not reading. That's
an entirely different thing.

These OSA ops remind me totally of the "Great Wizard of Ozzzzzzzzzzzz" with
his loud, boisterous voice, flipping switched behind the curtain.
Once Toto pulled it back, he had little to say. He was a fraud, finally
exposed. Turned out he was
a nice person after all. I'm sure the same is true of the losers slaving for
OSA>once they too get out of the trap.

All the best :)

Tory/Magoo!
Chip Gallo
2003-11-30 17:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be
helpful, etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me,
as I admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in
Scientology for 30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what
to say. Also, I'd been out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the
critics" and had worked with Class 8, OT8, Senior C/S Bill
Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA Int Top Secret
Internet Mafia: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to
"Help" them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I
was, in my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so
until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
I agree. And if a Scn truly applies the Data Series principles or KTL, they
will figure out that they are being lied to. Many have already. Unfettered
access to the internet accelerates the process of un-brainwashing oneself.
Post by Magoo
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Magoo
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as
yourselves from reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might
* find out what actually goes on, behind your backs. They are
counting on you NOT finding out, as we're talking BIG money here,
as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved
plots of why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed."
I'm glad he's changed on that. When I was first posting here his
posts to me reflected a very different viewpoint and were often
quite cutting. I assume that he either did not feel that way then or
that he did but thought I was an operative. Not being sarcastic-
it's just a plain fact that if one thinks another person's an
operative it's very hard to "grant them beingness", so to speak.
In the early 1990's, constant rudeness from critics on a.r.s. certainly was
not supportive to escaping the cult. It's like teasing an overweight person
instead of showing them a healthy diet. The brute force method also triggers
an "always attack, never defend" response. Seems counterproductive to me.
OSA minion probably emulate this in some of their nasty stooge postings.
Post by Magoo
Post by Ball of Fluff
Church members are mainly uninformed. Most really don't know the
stuff the church does.
But the misinformation of which Andreas speaks comes into play with
the stuff the church says about all critics being bad and
destructive. Anyone in a "squirrel group" being bad, destructive,
messing it all up, etc.
So both things come into play.
Post by Magoo
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or
"Bare Faced Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO
bad. It's taken me three years of being out to finally pick up
Margaret Singers book on Cults. Now I see why they hated her So.
There's great information in there!) OR you can go to Web sites on
the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology
and make sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only
having one side, and they're massively loosing on that one.
And don't believe the bs about getting sick from reading something. It
doesn't happen, not from reading. Ignoring your health, exposure to asbestos
on the FleaWinds are hazardous.
Post by Magoo
Post by Ball of Fluff
Those books are fair. But they do contain some inaccuracies. Ken
Urquhart, a former CofS exec (he designed and set up the RPF) who is
now out of CofS and in the indie Scn scene has written some good
articles analyzing one of those books. Forget which one.
But they still are more accurate than the church's farrago of
fairytales or flat out omission of very key facts about very
unsavory and illegal practices that happen on an on going basis.
Post by Magoo
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having
access to facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from
his group.
No, but there was a time when he would have totally dug it.
Telex machines and Addressographs were the "hi tech" of Hubbard's world.
Probably the cameras he used were fairly state of the art. I don't think he
dug computers that much because they get left behind when you flee and are
difficult to support on a ship at sea. I doubt he was involved in writing
the Computer Series fot the same reasons.
Post by Magoo
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Magoo
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even
say his own name scare you.
Well, we also have a lot of critics who post anonymously. I
personally wouldn't use the anonymity thing against the person.
But we can see what Truthseeker's agenda is by what he posts. And it
ain't pretty.
Post by Magoo
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin
looking. Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told
to do or not do.
Yes. For a long time I compromised myself. Yes, I did not know about
a lot of things that go on in CofS, but I did hear bits and pieces.
Moreover, I experienced some rather unpleasant things that did send
up red flags in the old noggin. But I did not pay attention to those
for a while.The church had an explanation for all of 'em.
'Cept they didn't *really*. If one were to objectively look at what
one's told in CofS- the various yellow journalism and bitching about
critics, psychs, or various rationalizations- really objectively-
one can see that they're not really explaining anything.
C
Claire...
Thanks for the in put. Yes, I'm sure many people change while here
on ARS. I know I have. I know you have. I'm not surprised Andreas has
:) Isn't that cool, too!
As far as the anonomous...I'm not holding that against anyone. The
anonymous critics I know don't try to scare people into not reading.
That's an entirely different thing.
These OSA ops remind me totally of the "Great Wizard of
Ozzzzzzzzzzzz" with his loud, boisterous voice, flipping switched
behind the curtain.
Once Toto pulled it back, he had little to say. He was a fraud,
finally exposed. Turned out he was
a nice person after all. I'm sure the same is true of the losers slaving for
Post by Ball of Fluff
once they too get out of the trap.
All the best :)
Tory/Magoo!
Thanks to both of you for your writings. Have fun during the holidays!

Chip Gallo
"Tricky, so watch him."
Truth Seeker
2003-11-30 05:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Tory gets caught lying, again:


On the 10th of November 2003 Tory posted an article titled "Tory
Tory Tory Tory.... Here's Why". In this article she tried to explain
the reason why I appeared in early August of this year. She stated
that it was because of an article she posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done is the reason why
I started "attacking" her and writing articles that showed her in a
bad light. The earliest article Tory posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done was on August 17,
2003, titled "LA PICKETAnnouncement!". When she wrote about a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done she was responding
to an earlier post put up by a poster named "Chris Severn". In that
August 17th, 2003 article she said:

"Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
since"

Nowhere is there found any articles by Tory concerning talking to
a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done prior to
August 17th, 2003!

Here is the header information from her August 17, 2003 post that
supposed to have caused me to start "attacking" her:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Magoo" Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology References:
<6YcZa.94211$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
<***@news.ezy.net <***@news.ezy.net
<***@news.ezy.net <***@news.ezy.net
Subject: Re: LA PICKETAnnouncement!
Lines: 196
Message-ID:
<cUI%a.103408$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT NNTP-
Posting-Host: 12.80.13.163
X-Complaints-To: ***@worldnet.att.net
X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1061116552 12.80.13.163
(Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT Organization: AT&T
Worldnet

Here is the part of that post that contains her statements about
a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks, Chris! I know it's SO obvious to we who understand and are out
of the Scio/Truman show, however the sad truth is they ~believe~ this
stuff *works*. They don't understand that it is doing just what you
have pointed out: It SHOWS their Fair Game BS. actions in action!
Here's why I am pretty sure they are trying SO hard to "Black PR" me:
Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
since. They are SO predictable. Let's just look at the facts:
Scientology has gotten more and more totalitarian. As it has, people
(Especially the "OT's) Have been less and less willing to 'stay on the
Bridge". (See Cerri's posts re completions). I know from being in
Scientology, that they work very hard to stop people from reading ANY
"Entheta" (Critical information about C of S). While I was "In" ..they
covertly installed the Net Nanny onto most Scios computers, which
Covertly blocked ANY critical thoughts or commments about Scientology,
Hubbard, etc. As they try to stop....and as the 'tech' gets altered
(which you can find exact examples of that here on the Internet)......
more and more people want to find out what is happening, for real?
Also, with the Internet, now people trapped in a Cult can actually in
the quiet of their own homes READ things they never could before.
Sure, some *might* get caught in a Sec Check, but most lurking aren't
on lines now, and many won't be again.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now the truth of the matter is, by the time she wrote that
article I had already written multiple articles concerning Tory's
still being in the church and working undercover for them. Here are 2
of those articles with header information just incase you want to
verify their authenticity. Please take note of the dates of those
posts.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:12 AM
Subject: Why doen'st Tory go onto TV and tell her story like Bob did?


I just can't figure out why Tory, "the great communictor" won't go
infront on Millions of people and tell her story to the world like Bob
Minton did? SHE IS TRYING TO HURT THE CHURCH RIGHT?

Or would this hurt her church in a REAL way? If she want's to
commincate to the world the Church's crimes, WHY DOES'NT SHE
GO IN FRONT OF THE WORLD AND DO IT?

If Bob Minton can do it, WHY CAN'T SHE??

Real Answer: She's working undercover for OSA and she's not going
to do anything to hurt her church in any REAL way. Come on Tory, PROVE
ME WRONG. That's what you OSA assholes are all about isn't it?




Truth Seeker
==============================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 9:29 AM
Subject: Things the church are TERRIFIED others finding out


The first of which of which is this newsgroup is crawling with
OSA members "acting" like real critics. Their mission is to troll the
newgroup waiting for a REAL critic of Scientology to come along and
give him a hard time.

The next thing they are terrified of is somebody doing something
that will hurt them for REAL. A few years a ago there was a critic
named Bob Minton who was going on TV infont of Millions of people
exposing these assholes. So they knew they HAD to shut him down, and
they did. He was running a website calle xenutv. When they shut him
down they took over his website. What you must understand is that
Scientology does'nt destroy enemy websites, it TAKES THEM OVER. Now if
you log onto his old website, it's going right into OSA headqarters in
Hemet California. The trace has been done, it's supposed to end up in
Europe but it bounces back to California. If you log onto a OSA
controlled website they can then trace you and find out who their
critics are. Which is the reason they keep trying to convince you to
"go onto the xenutv website".


Another thing you will find out the OSA "troll" pretending to be
critics like to push is a good ole picket. The reason they won't to
get you out on a picket, especially if they don't know who you are, is
SO THEY CAN FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE. Like I said, Scientology likes to
know who their enemies are. If you go out on a picket, they will get a
picture of you, find out who you are, where you live and work.
Scientology likes to have a target to point their guns at. They'll
tell you over and over, "Picketing has the Church on their knee's"
Bullshit, those pickets have been running intensely since 1994 and the
church is still here are they not. IT'S LIKE PRICKING THE SIDE OF A
ELEPHANT WITH A PIN. The damage is very small. They are willing to
give up this damage TO FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE.

Also, be carefull of an ACTRESS we have here on ARS. Her name is
Tory/Magoo. She put on a big show up in the Boston Org "Acting" like
she had come out of the church. THE REASON SHE WAS PICKETING WAS TO
CONVINCE THE WORLD SHE WAS FOR REAL. But it was all a setup to
convince Bob Minton. Unfortantly Bob fell for it and took Tory in with
open arms and now he is finished. THIS IS THE REASON SHE KEEPS PUSHING
THOSE OLD WEBSITES AND FOR "NEW CRITICS, COME OUT AND PICKET". She is
working for OSA, undercover. She acts like she trying to hurt the
church but every time I've asked her to go on TV like Bob did, I get
no reply. Why? Because IF SHE WENT ON TV LIKE BOB DID, THAT WOULD
REALLY HURT THE CHURCH, HER CHURCH.

The church is TERRIFIED of somebody doing something to hurt them
for REAL. Bob was hurting them for real, so they KNEW they had to take
his ass out, and they did. They'll keep saying, "come on out and
picket with us and win a stuff toy". They would much rather you picket
than do something that would REALLY hurt they're lying asses.

These assholes are taking people for a ride in the churches and
now they are trying to take people for a ride on this newsgroup. It's
like we are all on a bus with Tory sitting behind the wheel like Ralph
Cramdon, saying "come on suckers, um I mean, fellow critics, let's go
down and picket the big bad church" It's a bus ride to wasting your
time and exposing yourself to the church and making yourself into a
target.

L. Ron Hubbard did say one thing that was right. He said "the
only thing you can have is what you can waste".

If there's one thing ALL of us need to waste in this
universe, it's Scientology. The source of your happiness is within
yourself. The solution to all problems is to create. If you don't like
the life your living, create a new one. I strongly feel that the only
one that should be fooling with your mind is YOU.

Oh and a Tory, Ted Koppel of Nightline is still waiting for
you to come on an tell the world your story. Your supposed to be the
big "communicator" right? Or would going on national TV hurt your
church too much.




Truth Seeker
===========
"OSA Stands for: Operations by Super Assholes"
"A man must purify himself, no man can purify another"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Tory is trying to get the readers of this newsgroup to believe
that it was what she wrote in her article on August 17, 2003 that
caused me to write harsh and uncomplimentary posts about her. The
truth is I had ALREADY been writing those types of articles concerning
Tory days before she wrote that article! Her article concerning a
Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done came AFTER
I wrote my articles criticizing Tory! There are NO articles by her
concerning a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are
done before August 17th 2003.






Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Rookie1122Rk
2003-11-30 05:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: To those Lurking
Date: 11/29/2003 9:21 PM Pacific Standard Time
Two things that TS is obsessed with.

Tory -- who tells it like it is.

And xenu.net -- a site that exposes Scientology for what is.

No wonder so much of his time is spent of those two subjects.

Keep trying. It ain't working.

Regards
Truth Seeker
2003-11-30 05:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Two things that TS is obsessed with.
The only thing I'm "obsessed" with is the world know how the
Church of Scientogy really is. It seems "Rookie" is "obsessed" with
stopping the world from know the truth.







Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Rookie1122Rk
2003-11-30 05:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: To those Lurking
Date: 11/29/2003 9:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Two things that TS is obsessed with.
The only thing I'm "obsessed" with is the world know how the
Church of Scientogy really is. It seems "Rookie" is "obsessed" with
stopping the world from know the truth.
No, let people see everything. Freedom of information. Let them read your
posts. Doesn't bother me one bit.

Regards
Truth Seeker
2003-11-30 05:55:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rookie1122Rk
No, let people see everything. Freedom of information. Let them read your
posts. Doesn't bother me one bit.
Regards
If it doesn't bother him as he says, why does he respond and
attack my post almost as soon as I post them?






Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Rookie1122Rk
2003-11-30 05:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: To those Lurking
Date: 11/29/2003 9:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
Post by Rookie1122Rk
No, let people see everything. Freedom of information. Let them read your
posts. Doesn't bother me one bit.
Regards
If it doesn't bother him as he says, why does he respond and
attack my post almost as soon as I post them?
Why do you respond to my posts just as quickly?

Regards
Truth Seeker
2003-11-30 06:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Subject: Re: To those Lurking
Date: 11/29/2003 9:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
Post by Rookie1122Rk
No, let people see everything. Freedom of information. Let them read your
posts. Doesn't bother me one bit.
Regards
If it doesn't bother him as he says, why does he respond and
attack my post almost as soon as I post them?
Why do you respond to my posts just as quickly?
Regards
To point out what you are doing to the readers and I'm sure they
see it too.





Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Rookie1122Rk
2003-11-30 06:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: To those Lurking
Date: 11/29/2003 10:08 PM Pacific Standard Time
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Subject: Re: To those Lurking
Date: 11/29/2003 9:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
Post by Rookie1122Rk
No, let people see everything. Freedom of information. Let them read
your
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Post by Rookie1122Rk
posts. Doesn't bother me one bit.
Regards
If it doesn't bother him as he says, why does he respond and
attack my post almost as soon as I post them?
Why do you respond to my posts just as quickly?
Regards
To point out what you are doing to the readers and I'm sure they
see it too.
If they see it, why do you need to point it out then.

Why are you so scared of xenu.net and Tory????

Regards
Zinj
2003-11-30 06:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Subject: Re: To those Lurking
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Why do you respond to my posts just as quickly?
Regards
To point out what you are doing to the readers and I'm sure they
see it too.
If they see it, why do you need to point it out then.
Why are you so scared of xenu.net and Tory????
He's scared because *they* actually exist, something Trough
Slurper, no matter how many galley slaves they chain to the
keyboard, has yet to accomplish.

Zinj
--
Scientology® - Deliberately killing no more than 0.5 percent of
its members since 1953
Truth Seeker
2003-11-30 06:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Conclusions the Church of Scientology want you to come to:


What OSA wants you to do is to come to one of the following
conclusions concerning the critics of Scientology:

They want you to conclude that they:

1. Don't know what there are talking about.

2. Are liars.

3. Are SP's just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his lectures from the
PTS/SP course.

4. Are mentally ill just like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books and
lectures.

5. Are lowlifes or perverts like L. Ron Hubbard said in his books and
lectures.

6. Are at 1.1 on the tone scale like L. Ron Hubbard said in "Science
of Survival".

7. Are religious bigots.


If you read enough of what's on those xenu web sites you will
eventually come to one of the above conclusions concerning the critics
of Scientology and guess what? That's just what the church of
Scientology wants! That's why they were created and why they want you
to go there so badly. Those web sites only discredit the CRITICS of
Scientology not Scientology!





Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Magoo
2003-11-30 10:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Rookie1122Rk
Two things that TS is obsessed with.
The only thing I'm "obsessed" with is the world know how the
Church of Scientogy really is.
If that were true, you wouldn't spend day after day posting the same boring
lying posts about me, trying to stop people from reading the truth about
your organization.

You are afraid and here's the truth: YOU Are losing toothie.
We critics and X-Scientologists and even some Scientologists know you're
lying, day after day. Thanks for the great demo in Fair Game. It proves Fair
Game IS being used, and YOU are the proof.
I'm not fair gaming you...but you are lying about me, which ~is~ part of
"Fair Game":

"You can lie, cheat, steal, destroy someone utterly". L. Ron Hubbard.
If not, you could post one piece of proof, but you cannot..because you are
lying. You know it, and I know it. So does every person who wastes time
reading your junk.

So sorry for you. I hope you apply Hubbard's Final PL:
"The way OUT
IS
The Nearest
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR".

Tory/Magoo!


It seems "Rookie" is "obsessed" with
Post by Truth Seeker
stopping the world from know the truth.
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Truth Seeker
2003-11-30 10:45:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magoo
If that were true, you wouldn't spend day after day posting the same boring
lying posts about me, trying to stop people from reading the truth about
your organization.
First of all, if you think they are boring, why do you read them.
Obviously they are not boring enough to keep you away from them.
Second my posts tell the truth about you and that's what upsets you.
Third, it is YOU who are trying to stop people from reading the truth
about YOUR organization. Tory the church of scientology is YOUR
organization and you know it.
Post by Magoo
You are afraid and here's the truth: YOU Are losing toothie.
That fact that I'm still here posting the truth about Scientology
proves that I am winning. OSA's goal was to drive me, like other
critics in the past, off this newsgroup. It is OSA who is failing and
failing badly I might add.
Post by Magoo
We critics and X-Scientologists and even some Scientologists know you're
You are no critic Tory and you are no X-Scientologist.
Post by Magoo
lying, day after day. Thanks for the great demo in Fair Game. It proves Fair
It is YOUR lying day after day that is a perfect demo of "Fair Game".

Now that we are on the subject of lying, here some proof of the
lies you have told recently:

On the 10th of November 2003 Tory posted an article titled "Tory
Tory Tory Tory.... Here's Why". In this article she tried to explain
the reason why I appeared in early August of this year. She stated
that it was because of an article she posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done is the reason why
I started "attacking" her and writing articles that showed her in a
bad light. The earliest article Tory posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done was on August 17,
2003, titled "LA PICKETAnnouncement!". When she wrote about a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done she was responding
to an earlier post put up by a poster named "Chris Severn". In that
August 17th, 2003 article she said:

"Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
since"

Nowhere is there found any articles by Tory concerning talking to
a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done prior to
August 17th, 2003!

Here is the header information from her August 17, 2003 post that
supposed to have caused me to start "attacking" her:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Magoo" Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology References:
<6YcZa.94211$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
<***@news.ezy.net <***@news.ezy.net
<***@news.ezy.net <***@news.ezy.net
Subject: Re: LA PICKETAnnouncement!
Lines: 196
Message-ID:
<cUI%a.103408$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT NNTP-
Posting-Host: 12.80.13.163
X-Complaints-To: ***@worldnet.att.net
X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1061116552 12.80.13.163
(Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT Organization: AT&T
Worldnet

Here is the part of that post that contains her statements about
a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks, Chris! I know it's SO obvious to we who understand and are out
of the Scio/Truman show, however the sad truth is they ~believe~ this
stuff *works*. They don't understand that it is doing just what you
have pointed out: It SHOWS their Fair Game BS. actions in action!
Here's why I am pretty sure they are trying SO hard to "Black PR" me:
Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
since. They are SO predictable. Let's just look at the facts:
Scientology has gotten more and more totalitarian. As it has, people
(Especially the "OT's) Have been less and less willing to 'stay on the
Bridge". (See Cerri's posts re completions). I know from being in
Scientology, that they work very hard to stop people from reading ANY
"Entheta" (Critical information about C of S). While I was "In" ..they
covertly installed the Net Nanny onto most Scios computers, which
Covertly blocked ANY critical thoughts or commments about Scientology,
Hubbard, etc. As they try to stop....and as the 'tech' gets altered
(which you can find exact examples of that here on the Internet)......
more and more people want to find out what is happening, for real?
Also, with the Internet, now people trapped in a Cult can actually in
the quiet of their own homes READ things they never could before.
Sure, some *might* get caught in a Sec Check, but most lurking aren't
on lines now, and many won't be again.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now the truth of the matter is, by the time she wrote that
article I had already written multiple articles concerning Tory's
still being in the church and working undercover for them. Here are 2
of those articles with header information just incase you want to
verify their authenticity. Please take note of the dates of those
posts.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:12 AM
Subject: Why doen'st Tory go onto TV and tell her story like Bob did?


I just can't figure out why Tory, "the great communictor" won't go
infront on Millions of people and tell her story to the world like Bob
Minton did? SHE IS TRYING TO HURT THE CHURCH RIGHT?

Or would this hurt her church in a REAL way? If she want's to
commincate to the world the Church's crimes, WHY DOES'NT SHE
GO IN FRONT OF THE WORLD AND DO IT?

If Bob Minton can do it, WHY CAN'T SHE??

Real Answer: She's working undercover for OSA and she's not going
to do anything to hurt her church in any REAL way. Come on Tory, PROVE
ME WRONG. That's what you OSA assholes are all about isn't it?




Truth Seeker
==============================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 9:29 AM
Subject: Things the church are TERRIFIED others finding out


The first of which of which is this newsgroup is crawling with
OSA members "acting" like real critics. Their mission is to troll the
newgroup waiting for a REAL critic of Scientology to come along and
give him a hard time.

The next thing they are terrified of is somebody doing something
that will hurt them for REAL. A few years a ago there was a critic
named Bob Minton who was going on TV infont of Millions of people
exposing these assholes. So they knew they HAD to shut him down, and
they did. He was running a website calle xenutv. When they shut him
down they took over his website. What you must understand is that
Scientology does'nt destroy enemy websites, it TAKES THEM OVER. Now if
you log onto his old website, it's going right into OSA headqarters in
Hemet California. The trace has been done, it's supposed to end up in
Europe but it bounces back to California. If you log onto a OSA
controlled website they can then trace you and find out who their
critics are. Which is the reason they keep trying to convince you to
"go onto the xenutv website".


Another thing you will find out the OSA "troll" pretending to be
critics like to push is a good ole picket. The reason they won't to
get you out on a picket, especially if they don't know who you are, is
SO THEY CAN FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE. Like I said, Scientology likes to
know who their enemies are. If you go out on a picket, they will get a
picture of you, find out who you are, where you live and work.
Scientology likes to have a target to point their guns at. They'll
tell you over and over, "Picketing has the Church on their knee's"
Bullshit, those pickets have been running intensely since 1994 and the
church is still here are they not. IT'S LIKE PRICKING THE SIDE OF A
ELEPHANT WITH A PIN. The damage is very small. They are willing to
give up this damage TO FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE.

Also, be carefull of an ACTRESS we have here on ARS. Her name is
Tory/Magoo. She put on a big show up in the Boston Org "Acting" like
she had come out of the church. THE REASON SHE WAS PICKETING WAS TO
CONVINCE THE WORLD SHE WAS FOR REAL. But it was all a setup to
convince Bob Minton. Unfortantly Bob fell for it and took Tory in with
open arms and now he is finished. THIS IS THE REASON SHE KEEPS PUSHING
THOSE OLD WEBSITES AND FOR "NEW CRITICS, COME OUT AND PICKET". She is
working for OSA, undercover. She acts like she trying to hurt the
church but every time I've asked her to go on TV like Bob did, I get
no reply. Why? Because IF SHE WENT ON TV LIKE BOB DID, THAT WOULD
REALLY HURT THE CHURCH, HER CHURCH.

The church is TERRIFIED of somebody doing something to hurt them
for REAL. Bob was hurting them for real, so they KNEW they had to take
his ass out, and they did. They'll keep saying, "come on out and
picket with us and win a stuff toy". They would much rather you picket
than do something that would REALLY hurt they're lying asses.

These assholes are taking people for a ride in the churches and
now they are trying to take people for a ride on this newsgroup. It's
like we are all on a bus with Tory sitting behind the wheel like Ralph
Cramdon, saying "come on suckers, um I mean, fellow critics, let's go
down and picket the big bad church" It's a bus ride to wasting your
time and exposing yourself to the church and making yourself into a
target.

L. Ron Hubbard did say one thing that was right. He said "the
only thing you can have is what you can waste".

If there's one thing ALL of us need to waste in this
universe, it's Scientology. The source of your happiness is within
yourself. The solution to all problems is to create. If you don't like
the life your living, create a new one. I strongly feel that the only
one that should be fooling with your mind is YOU.

Oh and a Tory, Ted Koppel of Nightline is still waiting for
you to come on an tell the world your story. Your supposed to be the
big "communicator" right? Or would going on national TV hurt your
church too much.




Truth Seeker
===========
"OSA Stands for: Operations by Super Assholes"
"A man must purify himself, no man can purify another"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Tory is trying to get the readers of this newsgroup to believe
that it was what she wrote in her article on August 17, 2003 that
caused me to write harsh and uncomplimentary posts about her. The
truth is I had ALREADY been writing those types of articles concerning
Tory days before she wrote that article! Her article concerning a
Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done came AFTER
I wrote my articles criticizing Tory! There are NO articles by her
concerning a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are
done before August 17th 2003.








Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Graograman
2003-11-30 15:05:22 UTC
Permalink
hi!


pmfbi, i'm one of those lurkers and always enjoy reading tory's posts.

i really must say that for me, xenu.net and the like very useful
resources of information (*gasp* :-) and that did help a lot for me to
finally take off my "pink glasses" (so to speak).

after 17 years in scientology my doubts were growing for the past few
years, and this information was exactly what i needed to finally make
me realize that i was no longer on the right team.

however when i look at the posts by TruthSeeker and imagine myself
again at the point where i really needed information to help me make a
big decision, i find exactly what he says about what the "enemy" is
trying to accomplish. in my opinion his posts are usually boring,
contain hardly any informative facts and the main drive seems to be to
discredit others by accusing them of being trolls or whatever.

had i come here for info and relied on this source of information, i
would have packed it right away to go back on lines and confirm that
critics of scientology are just a bunch of idiots and that i'm sorry
for ever soubting the motives of management.
Post by Truth Seeker
First of all, if you think they are boring, why do you read them.
Obviously they are not boring enough to keep you away from them.
Second my posts tell the truth about you and that's what upsets you.
Third, it is YOU who are trying to stop people from reading the truth
about YOUR organization. Tory the church of scientology is YOUR
organization and you know it.
people like myself read them (and i'm sure that's what you have in
mind with your posts, because you certainly already know what the
regulars think of you) in the hope of obtaining valuable information
that could help us with our doubts or questions.
Post by Truth Seeker
That fact that I'm still here posting the truth about Scientology
proves that I am winning. OSA's goal was to drive me, like other
critics in the past, off this newsgroup. It is OSA who is failing and
failing badly I might add.
L-O-L ... either you're really dumb and have no clue or you really
think people are so stupid to believe this. why would osa really care
about you these days?

what does it matter to osa if a known critic writes up her/his
experiences about scientology in a newsgroup that's anyway not usually
frequented by scientologists. getting somebody on the grounds of
freedom of speech is much harder than hitting a website, and it makes
better stats at the end of the week. if you're a scientologist on
lines, you'll probably have had at least one sec check in the past few
years containing questions about the internet, so you already know
it's considered out-ethics to read/be here.

so the only thing they are probably very interested in are the real
identities of people in here who are still connected to scientology
and who can be routed to ethics because of that.

i know it was different in the past, but that was the past and we're
now (at least most of us here... hem hem :-)
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Magoo
We critics and X-Scientologists and even some Scientologists know you're
You are no critic Tory and you are no X-Scientologist.
so, but what do you care? i'm not officially an ex-scientologist. now
wot? are you going to add me to your list of osa staff? :-)

i think the general idea behind your actions is - as others already
pointed out - to discredit genuine people who want to help potential
ex-scientologists that come here in search for answers.

let me just take rookie's case - he was never a scientologist as he
says, but if he were, it surely might encourage him to leave pretty
soon if he's a newbie to this group and suddenly his name appears on a
list of osa agents. pretending to have a title or post that you don't
have is considered a crime in scientology... add that to the
nervousness and adrenaline rush you anyway have when you start
exploring the forbidden world of anti-scientology, this alone can
scare those people away.

mission accomplished? despicable!
Post by Truth Seeker
Now that we are on the subject of lying, here some proof of the
also a big yaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn. sounds awfully familiar to me, the
way you diligently prepare all this information (called dead agenting,
but i'm pretty sure you're aware of that :-)
Post by Truth Seeker
The first of which of which is this newsgroup is crawling with
OSA members "acting" like real critics. Their mission is to troll the
newgroup waiting for a REAL critic of Scientology to come along and
give him a hard time.
well, again you're either dumb and have no clue or really think that
people will actually believe you. do you know how many people actually
work for osa? from what i read here it seems the whole of scientology
is infiltrated with agents with thousands and thousands enlisted in
their ranks, all dedicated to bring down any critic.

allow me to give you a little reality adjustment here :) i admit i
don't know much about the situation in the states, but here in europe
(where the most suppression is going on and, logically thinking, this
should have the most osa staff because it's their job to handle)
there's less than a hundred staff for all three continents (uk/eu&af).
this includes the regional and cont offices.

these people, as anywhere else in scientology orgs, are of course (to
varying degrees) trained in lrh tech. however there is only a handful
of policies about computers, mainly saying that they are powerful
tools. so hardly anyone even knows how to access the internet, let
alone "control" a whole newsgroup and giving critics a hard time.

as i said before, it's probably different in the states, but then the
sea org is only a few thousand individuals and osa certainly can't
outnumber all of them. just doesn't make sense. and i also seem to
remember that a few people (mind you, not a whole army) tried to close
down a.r.s. some years back, that was at the time when this cd came
out with the hidden netnanny installed that would block access to the
channel and certain websites. but this was again the work of very few
individuals.

incompetence is red tape through their history, at least concerning
computers. there's only so few people at a time who have up-to-date
knowledge (such as about programming etc.), these people then are
encouraged to make use of it and a certain project emerges. like the
oca program for example. this was a dos program written by two sea org
individuals, not even well written, and completely dependent on one
particular hardware configuration. naturally (because nobody at
management could estimate the usefulness) it was pushed through as the
standard solution and suddenly every org, mission, city office on the
planet had to buy a hp laserjet 3p, this program and ideally a certain
type of ocr reading machine. the programmer had already left the
project shortly after completion and so nobody cared about bugs or
problems with the program, and to this day there are places out there
that use this equipment.

i know this has nothing to do with your posts, but i just want to take
away a bit of the fear you (and others, granted) are instilling about
osa. of course, if they fire a project on yourself, it's a different
kind of ball-game, and yes, it can get very nasty. but it's a matter
of priorities, and as i said before, osa is very likely not going to
care about some non-scientologist or definitive ex-scientologist
posting their personal opinions here. remember they also have to
report in their stats every thursday, and "i have posted 25 misleading
posts in a.r.s." from my point of view just sounds too ridiculous to
be rewarded by a senior who usually hasn't got a clue what's going on
:-)
Post by Truth Seeker
The next thing they are terrified of is somebody doing something
that will hurt them for REAL. A few years a ago there was a critic
named Bob Minton who was going on TV infont of Millions of people
exposing these assholes. So they knew they HAD to shut him down, and
yeah and you guess with all those millions of people reading this
newsgroup every day, this really compares? lol...
Post by Truth Seeker
Europe but it bounces back to California. If you log onto a OSA
controlled website they can then trace you and find out who their
critics are. Which is the reason they keep trying to convince you to
"go onto the xenutv website".
is that so? well i have been a webmaster for a while and usually the
most i can get are ip addresses. sure, i can find out the provider and
then could ask them to reveal the personal information about the
subscriber. but i'm not law enforcement, and i wouldn't receive that
information. so i would really like you to share your wisdom on how
osa will trace and find out who i am when i enter one of your
so-called osa-controlled websites! :-)
Post by Truth Seeker
Another thing you will find out the OSA "troll" pretending to be
critics like to push is a good ole picket. The reason they won't to
get you out on a picket, especially if they don't know who you are, is
SO THEY CAN FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE. Like I said, Scientology likes to
know who their enemies are. If you go out on a picket, they will get a
picture of you, find out who you are, where you live and work.
Scientology likes to have a target to point their guns at. They'll
tell you over and over, "Picketing has the Church on their knee's"
Bullshit, those pickets have been running intensely since 1994 and the
church is still here are they not. IT'S LIKE PRICKING THE SIDE OF A
ELEPHANT WITH A PIN. The damage is very small. They are willing to
give up this damage TO FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE.
for once, i do agree, at least that picketing is not a great idea if
you're not completely out and have let scientology know that you're
out for good. picketing as such i think is not so bad, but it should
be much more than just 5 or 6 people. if there were a hundred or more
people actively participating, the impact would be much greater (and
the org people would need LOTS of film to photograph everyone ;-))
Post by Truth Seeker
L. Ron Hubbard did say one thing that was right. He said "the
only thing you can have is what you can waste".
If there's one thing ALL of us need to waste in this
universe, it's Scientology. The source of your happiness is within
yourself. The solution to all problems is to create. If you don't like
the life your living, create a new one. I strongly feel that the only
one that should be fooling with your mind is YOU.
interesting collection of quotes *g*
Post by Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
not that i have a big problem with foul language, but i think this is
rather inappropriate for someone who is claiming to seek the truth and
wants to be recognized as a genuine critic. any discussion partner
that resorts to name-calling in my eyes is just behaving like a
first-grader and not to be taken seriously.


good luck on your quest though, because if you're really what you say
you are, you have a long way to go.



grao.
Zinj
2003-11-30 19:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graograman
hi!
had i come here for info and relied on this source of information, i
would have packed it right away to go back on lines and confirm that
critics of scientology are just a bunch of idiots and that i'm sorry
for ever soubting the motives of management.
Hi Graograman, and welcome to the melee.

Of course, you're right that there *is* some danger of
'newbies' taking a first look at ARS, finding Truth Seeker and
either being so poleaxed by the sheer mind-numbing idiocy of his
posts that they decide that watching re-runs of 'The Love Boat'
in spanish would be less boring, or *even* (gasp) being taken in
by him.

That's par for the course, but *every* strategy or tactic one
could adopt to 'counter' such confusion has universally proven
itself to be worse than the disease.

In the end, and not just on ARS, one is forced to have a little
faith in the intelligence of the people reading, and trust that
their bullshit detectors are functioning well enough to see
through the 'Church' produced shit screen.

Everybody seems to know that *they're* smart enough to see
through the crap, but worries about those *less* perceptive,
which often leads to horrendously counterproductive yet well
intended 'actions' intended to serve the 'lowest common
denominator'.

It may be cynicism, but I tend to think that someone lacking the
fortitude and rationality to dig past Trough Slurper's (or
other's) deliberate disinformation probably shouldn't get
involved in Scientology Criticism anyway, on usenet or
elsewhere, lest they fall for an even *bigger* lie.

Zinj
--
Scientology® - Deliberately killing no more than 0.5 percent of
its members since 1953
Magoo
2003-12-01 00:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graograman
hi!
pmfbi, i'm one of those lurkers and always enjoy reading tory's posts.
i really must say that for me, xenu.net and the like very useful
resources of information (*gasp* :-) and that did help a lot for me to
finally take off my "pink glasses" (so to speak).
after 17 years in scientology my doubts were growing for the past few
years, and this information was exactly what i needed to finally make
me realize that i was no longer on the right team.
however when i look at the posts by TruthSeeker and imagine myself
again at the point where i really needed information to help me make a
big decision, i find exactly what he says about what the "enemy" is
trying to accomplish. in my opinion his posts are usually boring,
contain hardly any informative facts and the main drive seems to be to
discredit others by accusing them of being trolls or whatever.
had i come here for info and relied on this source of information, i
would have packed it right away to go back on lines and confirm that
critics of scientology are just a bunch of idiots and that i'm sorry
for ever soubting the motives of management.
Post by Truth Seeker
First of all, if you think they are boring, why do you read them.
Obviously they are not boring enough to keep you away from them.
Second my posts tell the truth about you and that's what upsets you.
Third, it is YOU who are trying to stop people from reading the truth
about YOUR organization. Tory the church of scientology is YOUR
organization and you know it.
people like myself read them (and i'm sure that's what you have in
mind with your posts, because you certainly already know what the
regulars think of you) in the hope of obtaining valuable information
that could help us with our doubts or questions.
Post by Truth Seeker
That fact that I'm still here posting the truth about Scientology
proves that I am winning. OSA's goal was to drive me, like other
critics in the past, off this newsgroup. It is OSA who is failing and
failing badly I might add.
L-O-L ... either you're really dumb and have no clue or you really
think people are so stupid to believe this. why would osa really care
about you these days?
what does it matter to osa if a known critic writes up her/his
experiences about scientology in a newsgroup that's anyway not usually
frequented by scientologists. getting somebody on the grounds of
freedom of speech is much harder than hitting a website, and it makes
better stats at the end of the week. if you're a scientologist on
lines, you'll probably have had at least one sec check in the past few
years containing questions about the internet, so you already know
it's considered out-ethics to read/be here.
so the only thing they are probably very interested in are the real
identities of people in here who are still connected to scientology
and who can be routed to ethics because of that.
i know it was different in the past, but that was the past and we're
now (at least most of us here... hem hem :-)
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Magoo
We critics and X-Scientologists and even some Scientologists know you're
You are no critic Tory and you are no X-Scientologist.
so, but what do you care? i'm not officially an ex-scientologist. now
wot? are you going to add me to your list of osa staff? :-)
i think the general idea behind your actions is - as others already
pointed out - to discredit genuine people who want to help potential
ex-scientologists that come here in search for answers.
let me just take rookie's case - he was never a scientologist as he
says, but if he were, it surely might encourage him to leave pretty
soon if he's a newbie to this group and suddenly his name appears on a
list of osa agents. pretending to have a title or post that you don't
have is considered a crime in scientology... add that to the
nervousness and adrenaline rush you anyway have when you start
exploring the forbidden world of anti-scientology, this alone can
scare those people away.
mission accomplished? despicable!
Post by Truth Seeker
Now that we are on the subject of lying, here some proof of the
also a big yaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn. sounds awfully familiar to me, the
way you diligently prepare all this information (called dead agenting,
but i'm pretty sure you're aware of that :-)
Post by Truth Seeker
The first of which of which is this newsgroup is crawling with
OSA members "acting" like real critics. Their mission is to troll the
newgroup waiting for a REAL critic of Scientology to come along and
give him a hard time.
well, again you're either dumb and have no clue or really think that
people will actually believe you. do you know how many people actually
work for osa? from what i read here it seems the whole of scientology
is infiltrated with agents with thousands and thousands enlisted in
their ranks, all dedicated to bring down any critic.
allow me to give you a little reality adjustment here :) i admit i
don't know much about the situation in the states, but here in europe
(where the most suppression is going on and, logically thinking, this
should have the most osa staff because it's their job to handle)
there's less than a hundred staff for all three continents (uk/eu&af).
this includes the regional and cont offices.
these people, as anywhere else in scientology orgs, are of course (to
varying degrees) trained in lrh tech. however there is only a handful
of policies about computers, mainly saying that they are powerful
tools. so hardly anyone even knows how to access the internet, let
alone "control" a whole newsgroup and giving critics a hard time.
as i said before, it's probably different in the states, but then the
sea org is only a few thousand individuals and osa certainly can't
outnumber all of them. just doesn't make sense. and i also seem to
remember that a few people (mind you, not a whole army) tried to close
down a.r.s. some years back, that was at the time when this cd came
out with the hidden netnanny installed that would block access to the
channel and certain websites. but this was again the work of very few
individuals.
incompetence is red tape through their history, at least concerning
computers. there's only so few people at a time who have up-to-date
knowledge (such as about programming etc.), these people then are
encouraged to make use of it and a certain project emerges. like the
oca program for example. this was a dos program written by two sea org
individuals, not even well written, and completely dependent on one
particular hardware configuration. naturally (because nobody at
management could estimate the usefulness) it was pushed through as the
standard solution and suddenly every org, mission, city office on the
planet had to buy a hp laserjet 3p, this program and ideally a certain
type of ocr reading machine. the programmer had already left the
project shortly after completion and so nobody cared about bugs or
problems with the program, and to this day there are places out there
that use this equipment.
i know this has nothing to do with your posts, but i just want to take
away a bit of the fear you (and others, granted) are instilling about
osa. of course, if they fire a project on yourself, it's a different
kind of ball-game, and yes, it can get very nasty. but it's a matter
of priorities, and as i said before, osa is very likely not going to
care about some non-scientologist or definitive ex-scientologist
posting their personal opinions here. remember they also have to
report in their stats every thursday, and "i have posted 25 misleading
posts in a.r.s." from my point of view just sounds too ridiculous to
be rewarded by a senior who usually hasn't got a clue what's going on
:-)
Post by Truth Seeker
The next thing they are terrified of is somebody doing something
that will hurt them for REAL. A few years a ago there was a critic
named Bob Minton who was going on TV infont of Millions of people
exposing these assholes. So they knew they HAD to shut him down, and
yeah and you guess with all those millions of people reading this
newsgroup every day, this really compares? lol...
Post by Truth Seeker
Europe but it bounces back to California. If you log onto a OSA
controlled website they can then trace you and find out who their
critics are. Which is the reason they keep trying to convince you to
"go onto the xenutv website".
is that so? well i have been a webmaster for a while and usually the
most i can get are ip addresses. sure, i can find out the provider and
then could ask them to reveal the personal information about the
subscriber. but i'm not law enforcement, and i wouldn't receive that
information. so i would really like you to share your wisdom on how
osa will trace and find out who i am when i enter one of your
so-called osa-controlled websites! :-)
Post by Truth Seeker
Another thing you will find out the OSA "troll" pretending to be
critics like to push is a good ole picket. The reason they won't to
get you out on a picket, especially if they don't know who you are, is
SO THEY CAN FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE. Like I said, Scientology likes to
know who their enemies are. If you go out on a picket, they will get a
picture of you, find out who you are, where you live and work.
Scientology likes to have a target to point their guns at. They'll
tell you over and over, "Picketing has the Church on their knee's"
Bullshit, those pickets have been running intensely since 1994 and the
church is still here are they not. IT'S LIKE PRICKING THE SIDE OF A
ELEPHANT WITH A PIN. The damage is very small. They are willing to
give up this damage TO FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE.
for once, i do agree, at least that picketing is not a great idea if
you're not completely out and have let scientology know that you're
out for good. picketing as such i think is not so bad, but it should
be much more than just 5 or 6 people. if there were a hundred or more
people actively participating, the impact would be much greater (and
the org people would need LOTS of film to photograph everyone ;-))
Post by Truth Seeker
L. Ron Hubbard did say one thing that was right. He said "the
only thing you can have is what you can waste".
If there's one thing ALL of us need to waste in this
universe, it's Scientology. The source of your happiness is within
yourself. The solution to all problems is to create. If you don't like
the life your living, create a new one. I strongly feel that the only
one that should be fooling with your mind is YOU.
interesting collection of quotes *g*
Post by Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
not that i have a big problem with foul language, but i think this is
rather inappropriate for someone who is claiming to seek the truth and
wants to be recognized as a genuine critic. any discussion partner
that resorts to name-calling in my eyes is just behaving like a
first-grader and not to be taken seriously.
good luck on your quest though, because if you're really what you say
you are, you have a long way to go.
*Excellent post!* **Excellent information!** Thank you so very much!!!! :)

Tory/Magoo!
Post by Graograman
grao.
Ball of Fluff
2003-11-30 17:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Magoo
If that were true, you wouldn't spend day after day posting the same boring
lying posts about me, trying to stop people from reading the truth about
your organization.
First of all, if you think they are boring, why do you read them.
Oh,it's like a train wreck. Hard to keep from lookin', ya know?

C
Magoo
2003-12-01 00:09:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Magoo
If that were true, you wouldn't spend day after day posting the same boring
lying posts about me, trying to stop people from reading the truth about
your organization.
First of all, if you think they are boring, why do you read them.
Obviously they are not boring enough to keep you away from them.
I don't read 99 3/4 of what you post....as it's redundant, and boring and a
lie. If I answer you, I've read one or two lines, seen the same *crap* and
post the truth re that.
Post by Truth Seeker
Second my posts tell the truth about you and that's what upsets you.
Liar. You've yet to post one thing that is an actual fact about me, and none
of it 'upsets' me. Because I post the truth about your lies, you all assume
(always your number one mistake) that I'm 'upset'. Quite the opposite....I'm
flattered!


Your knit pick *crap* even bores those who are "in"...and even ~that~ stupid
stuff isn't true!
Will I take time to explain it? Hell no. Why? Because I worked with OSA and
I know one of their targets IS to get any and all critics and
X-Scientologists off of the topic of Scientology, onto BS nothing stuff.
Here's a link to tell how they work:
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
Post by Truth Seeker
Third, it is YOU who are trying to stop people from reading the truth
about YOUR organization.
Post one fact, darlin. We've all seen your bogus feeble "the almighty Wizard
of OZ" Scare tactics trying to spread fear for months here. Guess what?
They're failing miserably~
In fact, I think you've increased my calls from people "in".

Take one post I've made on
http://www.torymagoo.org
and explain who I'm trying to stop people. Let's hear some specifics.
Oh that's right, you can't. Why?
Because you cannot read
http://www.torymagoo.org
because you might wake up!

You can also take my interviews on
http://www.xenutv.com
and tell me where one thing I've said to stop people. You lie, over and over
and over. You ~hope~ it will stick. Here's the truth: It isn't, at all. In
fact, just like kids who say "Don't talk to John! Don't ever talk to John!
After a while, just out of curiousity, they want to find out what John has
to say.
Same here, and then they find out you ARE lying.
This EXACT thing happened to me with Andreas. OSA Had lied, just like you
are, over and over about Andreas. I was sure he was the Devil, so when he
was quite decent, that blew their entire pitch, down the drain. The same
happens here, dear.


Tory the church of scientology is YOUR
Post by Truth Seeker
organization and you know it.
Post one fact, dear. I've yet to see ANY facts re who you are, or your
interviews about any real facts. All you do is copy my posts and others,
pitch in a bit of a fear spin,and repeat it over and over.
Here are a few for people to see:
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.xenutv.com (videos)
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(about the TOP secret OSA Int Mafia)
Where are yours?
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Magoo
You are afraid and here's the truth: YOU Are losing toothie.
That fact that I'm still here posting the truth about Scientology
proves that I am winning.
<Splat!> What exactly are you winning. Please fill me in.


OSA's goal was to drive me, like other
Post by Truth Seeker
critics in the past, off this newsgroup. It is OSA who is failing and
failing badly I might add.
No one tried to drive you off.
You're driving people out of the orgs by your stupid, redundant posts.
Congratulations....:)
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Magoo
We critics and X-Scientologists and even some Scientologists know you're
You are no critic Tory
Really? Name some. I'd LOVE to hear their names. Fill me in, if it's true.
My guess ..here are your supporters:
Bill Yaude
Gavino
Lynn Farney
Jim Kalurgis
CJ
various new OSA ops
Virginia and maybe Mike.

So who are they?
Mine people can read any day of the week. Of course they're people you're
trying to convice the lurkers are 'really scientologists too". Ya
sure......well, I suggest as always they read BOTH sides, and decide for
themselves.
A CULT doesn't want that, ever.
That's too much information.
You try to stop that. I do not.
There lies the difference!


and you are no X-Scientologist.

Let any lurkers decide for themselves. You've yet to post one fact re that,
in all your attempts at Black Pr. People are NOT stupid, although those who
blindly follow Hubbard's Fair Game Pl's as you are ......are VERY stupid.
The results prove it.
Post by Truth Seeker
Post by Magoo
lying, day after day. Thanks for the great demo in Fair Game. It proves Fair
It is YOUR lying day after day that is a perfect demo of "Fair Game".
Post one fact, that is a real fact, not that I posted on Tuesday vs
Wednesday and thus it 'proves she's a deep cover". Come on man, do you
~honestly~ believe people are THAT stupid?
Post by Truth Seeker
Now that we are on the subject of lying, here some proof of the
On the 10th of November 2003 Tory posted an article titled "Tory
Tory Tory Tory.... Here's Why". In this article she tried to explain
the reason why I appeared in early August of this year. She stated
that it was because of an article she posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done is the reason why
I started "attacking" her and writing articles that showed her in a
bad light. The earliest article Tory posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done was on August 17,
2003, titled "LA PICKETAnnouncement!". When she wrote about a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done she was responding
to an earlier post put up by a poster named "Chris Severn". In that
"Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
since"
Nowhere is there found any articles by Tory concerning talking to
a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done prior to
August 17th, 2003!
Who gives a FLYING F***?
I refuse to even waste the time to clear this up. IF anyone believes this is
"proof"...they belong with you. That is proof of NOTHING.
Post by Truth Seeker
Here is the header information from her August 17, 2003 post that
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: LA PICKETAnnouncement!
Lines: 196
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT NNTP-
Posting-Host: 12.80.13.163
X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1061116552 12.80.13.163
(Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT Organization: AT&T
Worldnet
Here is the part of that post that contains her statements about
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks, Chris! I know it's SO obvious to we who understand and are out
of the Scio/Truman show, however the sad truth is they ~believe~ this
stuff *works*. They don't understand that it is doing just what you
have pointed out: It SHOWS their Fair Game BS. actions in action!
Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
Scientology has gotten more and more totalitarian. As it has, people
(Especially the "OT's) Have been less and less willing to 'stay on the
Bridge". (See Cerri's posts re completions). I know from being in
Scientology, that they work very hard to stop people from reading ANY
"Entheta" (Critical information about C of S). While I was "In" ..they
covertly installed the Net Nanny onto most Scios computers, which
Covertly blocked ANY critical thoughts or commments about Scientology,
Hubbard, etc. As they try to stop....and as the 'tech' gets altered
(which you can find exact examples of that here on the Internet)......
more and more people want to find out what is happening, for real?
Also, with the Internet, now people trapped in a Cult can actually in
the quiet of their own homes READ things hey never could before.
Sure, some *might* get caught in a Sec Check, but most lurking aren't
on lines now, and many won't be again.
Very true!~
Post by Truth Seeker
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now the truth of the matter is, by the time she wrote that
article I had already written multiple articles concerning Tory's
still being in the church and working undercover for them.
This is again, proof of nothing.
If you had, that's even worse.
My point was, the full blown "Tory/Tory/Tory" came after that post where
someone "in" told me many people in are now reading ARS> And man have you
helped THAT stat~

Bottom line........................who cares?>
This is Exactly the type of stuff Yaude would tell me OSA ops did,,,,to
'distract people off of any topics re Scientology".
See how much time I've wasted here? It's a one time deal, as I'm in the
mood. Normally I refuse, as I know this is your intention, and how sick is
that?

Enough Bs.......I have to say you are one sick puppy.
My sympathies,,,,and thanks for the Proof re Fair game!
Now Virginia can come on and post on this is "Proof" what you said IS true,
as I didn't answer every single BS deal.
Go right ahead...You two make a great tag team.

Happy Holidays :)

Tory/Magoo~in the light~

Here are 2
Post by Truth Seeker
of those articles with header information just incase you want to
verify their authenticity. Please take note of the dates of those
posts.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:12 AM
Subject: Why doen'st Tory go onto TV and tell her story like Bob did?
I just can't figure out why Tory, "the great communictor" won't go
infront on Millions of people and tell her story to the world like Bob
Minton did? SHE IS TRYING TO HURT THE CHURCH RIGHT?
Or would this hurt her church in a REAL way? If she want's to
commincate to the world the Church's crimes, WHY DOES'NT SHE
GO IN FRONT OF THE WORLD AND DO IT?
If Bob Minton can do it, WHY CAN'T SHE??
Real Answer: She's working undercover for OSA and she's not going
to do anything to hurt her church in any REAL way. Come on Tory, PROVE
ME WRONG. That's what you OSA assholes are all about isn't it?
Truth Seeker
==============================================
----- Original Message -----
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 9:29 AM
Subject: Things the church are TERRIFIED others finding out
The first of which of which is this newsgroup is crawling with
OSA members "acting" like real critics. Their mission is to troll the
newgroup waiting for a REAL critic of Scientology to come along and
give him a hard time.
The next thing they are terrified of is somebody doing something
that will hurt them for REAL. A few years a ago there was a critic
named Bob Minton who was going on TV infont of Millions of people
exposing these assholes. So they knew they HAD to shut him down, and
they did. He was running a website calle xenutv. When they shut him
down they took over his website. What you must understand is that
Scientology does'nt destroy enemy websites, it TAKES THEM OVER. Now if
you log onto his old website, it's going right into OSA headqarters in
Hemet California. The trace has been done, it's supposed to end up in
Europe but it bounces back to California. If you log onto a OSA
controlled website they can then trace you and find out who their
critics are. Which is the reason they keep trying to convince you to
"go onto the xenutv website".
Another thing you will find out the OSA "troll" pretending to be
critics like to push is a good ole picket. The reason they won't to
get you out on a picket, especially if they don't know who you are, is
SO THEY CAN FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE. Like I said, Scientology likes to
know who their enemies are. If you go out on a picket, they will get a
picture of you, find out who you are, where you live and work.
Scientology likes to have a target to point their guns at. They'll
tell you over and over, "Picketing has the Church on their knee's"
Bullshit, those pickets have been running intensely since 1994 and the
church is still here are they not. IT'S LIKE PRICKING THE SIDE OF A
ELEPHANT WITH A PIN. The damage is very small. They are willing to
give up this damage TO FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE.
Also, be carefull of an ACTRESS we have here on ARS. Her name is
Tory/Magoo. She put on a big show up in the Boston Org "Acting" like
she had come out of the church. THE REASON SHE WAS PICKETING WAS TO
CONVINCE THE WORLD SHE WAS FOR REAL. But it was all a setup to
convince Bob Minton. Unfortantly Bob fell for it and took Tory in with
open arms and now he is finished. THIS IS THE REASON SHE KEEPS PUSHING
THOSE OLD WEBSITES AND FOR "NEW CRITICS, COME OUT AND PICKET". She is
working for OSA, undercover. She acts like she trying to hurt the
church but every time I've asked her to go on TV like Bob did, I get
no reply. Why? Because IF SHE WENT ON TV LIKE BOB DID, THAT WOULD
REALLY HURT THE CHURCH, HER CHURCH.
The church is TERRIFIED of somebody doing something to hurt them
for REAL. Bob was hurting them for real, so they KNEW they had to take
his ass out, and they did. They'll keep saying, "come on out and
picket with us and win a stuff toy". They would much rather you picket
than do something that would REALLY hurt they're lying asses.
These assholes are taking people for a ride in the churches and
now they are trying to take people for a ride on this newsgroup. It's
like we are all on a bus with Tory sitting behind the wheel like Ralph
Cramdon, saying "come on suckers, um I mean, fellow critics, let's go
down and picket the big bad church" It's a bus ride to wasting your
time and exposing yourself to the church and making yourself into a
target.
L. Ron Hubbard did say one thing that was right. He said "the
only thing you can have is what you can waste".
If there's one thing ALL of us need to waste in this
universe, it's Scientology. The source of your happiness is within
yourself. The solution to all problems is to create. If you don't like
the life your living, create a new one. I strongly feel that the only
one that should be fooling with your mind is YOU.
Oh and a Tory, Ted Koppel of Nightline is still waiting for
you to come on an tell the world your story. Your supposed to be the
big "communicator" right? Or would going on national TV hurt your
church too much.
Truth Seeker
===========
"OSA Stands for: Operations by Super Assholes"
"A man must purify himself, no man can purify another"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tory is trying to get the readers of this newsgroup to believe
that it was what she wrote in her article on August 17, 2003 that
caused me to write harsh and uncomplimentary posts about her. The
truth is I had ALREADY been writing those types of articles concerning
Tory days before she wrote that article! Her article concerning a
Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done came AFTER
I wrote my articles criticizing Tory! There are NO articles by her
concerning a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are
done before August 17th 2003.
Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"
=====================================================
If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)
"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Truth Seeker
2003-11-30 05:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Tory gets caught lying, again:


On the 10th of November 2003 Tory posted an article titled "Tory
Tory Tory Tory.... Here's Why". In this article she tried to explain
the reason why I appeared in early August of this year. She stated
that it was because of an article she posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done is the reason why
I started "attacking" her and writing articles that showed her in a
bad light. The earliest article Tory posted concerning a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done was on August 17,
2003, titled "LA PICKETAnnouncement!". When she wrote about a Class 8
telling her how many people were "in" that are done she was responding
to an earlier post put up by a poster named "Chris Severn". In that
August 17th, 2003 article she said:

"Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
since"

Nowhere is there found any articles by Tory concerning talking to
a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done prior to
August 17th, 2003!

Here is the header information from her August 17, 2003 post that
supposed to have caused me to start "attacking" her:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Magoo" Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology References:
<6YcZa.94211$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
<***@news.ezy.net <***@news.ezy.net
<***@news.ezy.net <***@news.ezy.net
Subject: Re: LA PICKETAnnouncement!
Lines: 196
Message-ID:
<cUI%a.103408$***@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT NNTP-
Posting-Host: 12.80.13.163
X-Complaints-To: ***@worldnet.att.net
X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1061116552 12.80.13.163
(Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:35:52 GMT Organization: AT&T
Worldnet

Here is the part of that post that contains her statements about
a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks, Chris! I know it's SO obvious to we who understand and are out
of the Scio/Truman show, however the sad truth is they ~believe~ this
stuff *works*. They don't understand that it is doing just what you
have pointed out: It SHOWS their Fair Game BS. actions in action!
Here's why I am pretty sure they are trying SO hard to "Black PR" me:
Recently I had a meeting with a Class 8 who is "In". This person told
me "Tory, You have NO idea just how many people are "in" but are
really out, and are lurking and reading ARS". I posted that a few
weeks ago, and this cat has been ragging on me almost to the day, ever
since. They are SO predictable. Let's just look at the facts:
Scientology has gotten more and more totalitarian. As it has, people
(Especially the "OT's) Have been less and less willing to 'stay on the
Bridge". (See Cerri's posts re completions). I know from being in
Scientology, that they work very hard to stop people from reading ANY
"Entheta" (Critical information about C of S). While I was "In" ..they
covertly installed the Net Nanny onto most Scios computers, which
Covertly blocked ANY critical thoughts or commments about Scientology,
Hubbard, etc. As they try to stop....and as the 'tech' gets altered
(which you can find exact examples of that here on the Internet)......
more and more people want to find out what is happening, for real?
Also, with the Internet, now people trapped in a Cult can actually in
the quiet of their own homes READ things they never could before.
Sure, some *might* get caught in a Sec Check, but most lurking aren't
on lines now, and many won't be again.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now the truth of the matter is, by the time she wrote that
article I had already written multiple articles concerning Tory's
still being in the church and working undercover for them. Here are 2
of those articles with header information just incase you want to
verify their authenticity. Please take note of the dates of those
posts.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:12 AM
Subject: Why doen'st Tory go onto TV and tell her story like Bob did?


I just can't figure out why Tory, "the great communictor" won't go
infront on Millions of people and tell her story to the world like Bob
Minton did? SHE IS TRYING TO HURT THE CHURCH RIGHT?

Or would this hurt her church in a REAL way? If she want's to
commincate to the world the Church's crimes, WHY DOES'NT SHE
GO IN FRONT OF THE WORLD AND DO IT?

If Bob Minton can do it, WHY CAN'T SHE??

Real Answer: She's working undercover for OSA and she's not going
to do anything to hurt her church in any REAL way. Come on Tory, PROVE
ME WRONG. That's what you OSA assholes are all about isn't it?




Truth Seeker
==============================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Truth Seeker" <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 9:29 AM
Subject: Things the church are TERRIFIED others finding out


The first of which of which is this newsgroup is crawling with
OSA members "acting" like real critics. Their mission is to troll the
newgroup waiting for a REAL critic of Scientology to come along and
give him a hard time.

The next thing they are terrified of is somebody doing something
that will hurt them for REAL. A few years a ago there was a critic
named Bob Minton who was going on TV infont of Millions of people
exposing these assholes. So they knew they HAD to shut him down, and
they did. He was running a website calle xenutv. When they shut him
down they took over his website. What you must understand is that
Scientology does'nt destroy enemy websites, it TAKES THEM OVER. Now if
you log onto his old website, it's going right into OSA headqarters in
Hemet California. The trace has been done, it's supposed to end up in
Europe but it bounces back to California. If you log onto a OSA
controlled website they can then trace you and find out who their
critics are. Which is the reason they keep trying to convince you to
"go onto the xenutv website".


Another thing you will find out the OSA "troll" pretending to be
critics like to push is a good ole picket. The reason they won't to
get you out on a picket, especially if they don't know who you are, is
SO THEY CAN FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE. Like I said, Scientology likes to
know who their enemies are. If you go out on a picket, they will get a
picture of you, find out who you are, where you live and work.
Scientology likes to have a target to point their guns at. They'll
tell you over and over, "Picketing has the Church on their knee's"
Bullshit, those pickets have been running intensely since 1994 and the
church is still here are they not. IT'S LIKE PRICKING THE SIDE OF A
ELEPHANT WITH A PIN. The damage is very small. They are willing to
give up this damage TO FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE.

Also, be carefull of an ACTRESS we have here on ARS. Her name is
Tory/Magoo. She put on a big show up in the Boston Org "Acting" like
she had come out of the church. THE REASON SHE WAS PICKETING WAS TO
CONVINCE THE WORLD SHE WAS FOR REAL. But it was all a setup to
convince Bob Minton. Unfortantly Bob fell for it and took Tory in with
open arms and now he is finished. THIS IS THE REASON SHE KEEPS PUSHING
THOSE OLD WEBSITES AND FOR "NEW CRITICS, COME OUT AND PICKET". She is
working for OSA, undercover. She acts like she trying to hurt the
church but every time I've asked her to go on TV like Bob did, I get
no reply. Why? Because IF SHE WENT ON TV LIKE BOB DID, THAT WOULD
REALLY HURT THE CHURCH, HER CHURCH.

The church is TERRIFIED of somebody doing something to hurt them
for REAL. Bob was hurting them for real, so they KNEW they had to take
his ass out, and they did. They'll keep saying, "come on out and
picket with us and win a stuff toy". They would much rather you picket
than do something that would REALLY hurt they're lying asses.

These assholes are taking people for a ride in the churches and
now they are trying to take people for a ride on this newsgroup. It's
like we are all on a bus with Tory sitting behind the wheel like Ralph
Cramdon, saying "come on suckers, um I mean, fellow critics, let's go
down and picket the big bad church" It's a bus ride to wasting your
time and exposing yourself to the church and making yourself into a
target.

L. Ron Hubbard did say one thing that was right. He said "the
only thing you can have is what you can waste".

If there's one thing ALL of us need to waste in this
universe, it's Scientology. The source of your happiness is within
yourself. The solution to all problems is to create. If you don't like
the life your living, create a new one. I strongly feel that the only
one that should be fooling with your mind is YOU.

Oh and a Tory, Ted Koppel of Nightline is still waiting for
you to come on an tell the world your story. Your supposed to be the
big "communicator" right? Or would going on national TV hurt your
church too much.




Truth Seeker
===========
"OSA Stands for: Operations by Super Assholes"
"A man must purify himself, no man can purify another"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Tory is trying to get the readers of this newsgroup to believe
that it was what she wrote in her article on August 17, 2003 that
caused me to write harsh and uncomplimentary posts about her. The
truth is I had ALREADY been writing those types of articles concerning
Tory days before she wrote that article! Her article concerning a
Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are done came AFTER
I wrote my articles criticizing Tory! There are NO articles by her
concerning a Class 8 telling her how many people were "in" that are
done before August 17th 2003.







Truth Seeker
"OSA Stands for: (O)perations by (S)uppressive (A)ssholes"

=====================================================

If you want to know what Scientology doesn't want you
to know, take a look these posts that I've put up earlier on
this newsgroup. (That's if the Church of "Suppress Free Speech"
hasn't illegally cancelled them)



"How to spot the OSA members on this newsgroup"
"How you know you've just read phony criticism created by Scientology"
"Scientology's Plan to Stop Critics & Criticism on this newsgroup"
"The key to how Scientology is handling this newsgroup"
"Why you should stay away from Scientology"
"The FAQ for Alt.Religion.Scientology"
"Names Scientology is Posting by on this newsgroup"
"Tactics OSA uses to stop critics on this newsgroup"
"The Magical Transformation of Church Member into Critic"
"How Scientology is playing both sides of the coin"
"Scientology's Decoy System"
"The 3 beliefs Scientology wants the world to believe"
"Some different Ways to "Handle" Scientology"
"How Scientology Traps New Members"
"Scientology's Trick to keep people from REAL criticism"
"Weaknesses of the Church of Scientology"
"How Scientology creates identity confusion"
Virginia
2003-11-30 22:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Tory,

This post you did looks to me like basically a variation of damage control.

Virginia
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be helpful,
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology for
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd been
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with Class 8,
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to "Help"
them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I was, in
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves from
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what actually
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots of
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are misinformed."
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare Faced
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's taken me
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on Cults.
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR you
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and make
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side, and
they're massively loosing on that one.
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having access to
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his own
name scare you.
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to do or
not do.
--
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years
Out for 3 years, 4 months happily
Declared SP (SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from C of S (Woooo hoooo!) :)
A Free Speech Advocate!
Free at last!!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
Magoo
2003-12-01 00:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Tory,
This post you did looks to me like basically a variation of damage control.
Virginia
~~Everything~~ I do looks to YOU like something other than it is.
Why is that, Ginny?

Tory/Magoo!
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be
helpful,
Post by Magoo
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology
for
Post by Magoo
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd been
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with
Class
Post by Virginia
8,
Post by Magoo
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the OSA
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to "Help"
them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I was, in
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves from
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what
actually
Post by Magoo
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots
of
Post by Magoo
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed."
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare Faced
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's taken me
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on
Cults.
Post by Magoo
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR
you
Post by Magoo
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and
make
Post by Magoo
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side,
and
Post by Magoo
they're massively loosing on that one.
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having
access
Post by Virginia
to
Post by Magoo
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his
own
Post by Magoo
name scare you.
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to do or
not do.
--
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years
Out for 3 years, 4 months happily
Declared SP (SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from C of S (Woooo hoooo!) :)
A Free Speech Advocate!
Free at last!!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
Zinj
2003-12-01 00:29:31 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@news2.lightlink.com>, Magoo44
@worldnet.att.net says...
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Tory,
This post you did looks to me like basically a variation of damage
control.
Post by Virginia
Virginia
~~Everything~~ I do looks to YOU like something other than it is.
Why is that, Ginny?
Tory/Magoo!
I would think that was obvious.

EITHER: You are a Psych/Marcab/OSA agent or dupe
OR: Your own aberration blinds you to the fact that Virginia
and Mike are the legitimate heirs/channelers of Sourceness.

That Virginia and Co. might be as wacky as Koos or Barbara S. or
Elron Himself never enters the equation. She *knows* what she
knows. And she *knows* it the same way Elron and Koos and
Barbara *know* things. Research! Holographic Realizations!

It's true for her.

Zinj
--
Scientology® - Deliberately killing no more than 0.5 percent of
its members since 1953
Phil Scott
2003-12-04 18:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zinj
@worldnet.att.net says...
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Tory,
This post you did looks to me like basically a variation of damage
control.
Post by Virginia
Virginia
~~Everything~~ I do looks to YOU like something other than it is.
Why is that, Ginny?
Tory/Magoo!
I would think that was obvious.
EITHER: You are a Psych/Marcab/OSA agent or dupe
OR: Your own aberration blinds you to the fact that Virginia
and Mike are the legitimate heirs/channelers of Sourceness.
That Virginia and Co. might be as wacky as Koos or Barbara S. or
Elron Himself never enters the equation. She *knows* what she
knows. And she *knows* it the same way Elron and Koos and
Barbara *know* things. Research! Holographic Realizations!
It's true for her.
Zinj
Thats right... and YOU lack certainty or you would be channeling too...
you would KNOW...you would not just be attacking those who DO 'KNOW'.
You have proven your defectiveness by means of your unknowingness...

you are SCREWED.... (and STOP that jumping around saying YES YES YES).

Phil the Marcab fleet captain, Scott
Post by Zinj
--
Scientology® - Deliberately killing no more than 0.5 percent of
its members since 1953
Virginia
2003-12-01 02:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Virginia
Post by Virginia
Tory,
This post you did looks to me like basically a variation of damage
control.
Post by Virginia
Virginia
~~Everything~~ I do looks to YOU like something other than it is.
Why is that, Ginny?
Tory,

I don't recall ever saying that "~~Everything~~" you do looks to me "like
something other than it is".

I did say above that THIS post you did "to those Lurking" does look to me
like it's basically a variation of damage control.

Did I not make myself clear enough on what I mean by that?

BTW, my name is not "Ginny", and neither is it or has it ever been a
nickname I have used or gone by.

Virginia
Post by Virginia
Why is that, Ginny?
Tory/Magoo!
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
Hi :) You know me, and I know you.
You've gotten curious about your
"church" and you know what they are saying isn't ALL of the picture.
You've come here to find out what else is going on, what *might* be
helpful,
Post by Magoo
etc. I know, as I did the same in June of 2000.
When I arrived here I found a bunch of people who didn't like me, as I
admit, I was posting sort of odd-ball posts. But I'd been in Scientology
for
Post by Magoo
30 years at the time, and frankly didn't know what to say. Also, I'd
been
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
out helping OSA, trying to "Handle the critics" and had worked with
Class
Post by Virginia
8,
Post by Magoo
OT8, Senior C/S Bill Yaude---who also ran the "OT" volunteers for the
OSA
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
(for That story)
I was sure these people/the critics were wrong, and I was going to
"Help"
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
them.
Ahhhh.......:) I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks, and I'm quite sure I
was,
Post by Virginia
in
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
my own way, LOOKING, although even I didn't realize so until I woke up.
The end beging I totally WOKE up! What a day that was ~~
Read. Look. Study.
There is TONS of information here on the Internet.
Here on ARS OSA Is actively trying to keep people such as yourselves
from
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
reading, looking, learning. God forbid, you *might * find out what
actually
Post by Magoo
goes on, behind your backs. They are counting on you NOT finding out, as
we're talking BIG money here, as well as their loyal followers.
Thus you have people like "Truthseeker" and his/her long, involved plots
of
Post by Magoo
why and how you shouldn't look, read, trust anyone.
"I don't think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are
misinformed."
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
Whether you go to the library and buy "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Bare
Faced
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
Messiah"... (and I know,,,you've been told those are SO bad. It's
taken
Post by Virginia
me
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
three years of being out to finally pick up Margaret Singers book on
Cults.
Post by Magoo
Now I see why they hated her So. There's great information in there!) OR
you
Post by Magoo
can go to Web sites on the Internet and learn...find out the FACTS.
If you don't want to go to any we suggest, just type in Scientology and
make
Post by Magoo
sure to read BOTH sides. They are counting on you only having one side,
and
Post by Magoo
they're massively loosing on that one.
Hubbard didn't plan for an Internet with Millions of people having
access
Post by Virginia
to
Post by Magoo
facts and truth in their own diningrooms, separate from his group.
Don't let some weasel hiding behind a curtain too afraid to even say his
own
Post by Magoo
name scare you.
I know it's not working, from those I speak with.
Good luck, and have fun! It's quite a wild ride, once you begin looking.
Just remember, trust your heart.
You know who you are. Do what YOU want, not what you've been told to
do
Post by Virginia
or
Post by Virginia
Post by Magoo
not do.
--
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
In Scientology for 30 years
Out for 3 years, 4 months happily
Declared SP (SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster)
Expelled from C of S (Woooo hoooo!) :)
A Free Speech Advocate!
Free at last!!!
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.torymagoo.org
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.altreligionscientology.org
(818) 841-3632
Burbank, CA
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