Discussion:
There are no OTs or OT powers
(too old to reply)
Galactic_Overlord
2007-08-06 15:36:05 UTC
Permalink
As I was catching up on posts from the weekend, I ran across the
(always) idiotic posts from .Lily. about who is and isn't a true critic
of Scientology. I gotta remember to killfile her...

Then it hit me, and I have to credit Arnie Lerma with always reminding
us of this basic truth about $cientology:

*THERE ARE NO OTs, AND THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN!!*

Where are you, OTs? If you were there, why haven't you stopped us? Why
can't you exteriorize and come get us? I'm still typing; why aren't you
right here with me at this moment making me stop? Or for that matter,
why haven't you stopped me from educating all my friends, family and
co-workers about the lies of $cientology? Why haven't you stopped me
from linking to the Xenu leaflet in my email signatures? Why didn't you
drop me in my tracks when I helped a friend to realize that the
"business" lessons her dentist boss was making her study were really
$cientology tech in disguise?

The answer is simple: You can't. You have no powers. This posting is
proof positive that there are no OTs and no OT powers.

G_O

Hail Xenu

http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm
Galactic_Overlord
2007-08-06 21:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Based on recent posts today, I thought it fitting to repost this from
this morning.

Hail Xenu
Post by Galactic_Overlord
As I was catching up on posts from the weekend, I ran across the
(always) idiotic posts from .Lily. about who is and isn't a true
critic of Scientology. I gotta remember to killfile her...
Then it hit me, and I have to credit Arnie Lerma with always reminding
*THERE ARE NO OTs, AND THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN!!*
Where are you, OTs? If you were there, why haven't you stopped us? Why
can't you exteriorize and come get us? I'm still typing; why aren't
you right here with me at this moment making me stop? Or for that
matter, why haven't you stopped me from educating all my friends,
family and co-workers about the lies of $cientology? Why haven't you
stopped me from linking to the Xenu leaflet in my email signatures?
Why didn't you drop me in my tracks when I helped a friend to realize
that the "business" lessons her dentist boss was making her study were
really $cientology tech in disguise?
The answer is simple: You can't. You have no powers. This posting is
proof positive that there are no OTs and no OT powers.
G_O
Hail Xenu
http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm
k***@gmail.com
2007-08-06 22:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Galactic_Overlord
As I was catching up on posts from the weekend, I ran across the
(always) idiotic posts from .Lily. about who is and isn't a true critic
of Scientology. I gotta remember to killfile her...
It is tricky. She's just interesting enough to read, when other
people quote her, but I killfiled her as a distraction.
Post by Galactic_Overlord
Then it hit me, and I have to credit Arnie Lerma with always reminding
*THERE ARE NO OTs, AND THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN!!*
Close enough. Certainly, no one has ever demonstrated any ability
that would be unique to an OT.
Post by Galactic_Overlord
Where are you, OTs? If you were there, why haven't you stopped us? Why
can't you exteriorize and come get us? I'm still typing; why aren't you
right here with me at this moment making me stop? Or for that matter,
why haven't you stopped me from educating all my friends, family and
co-workers about the lies of $cientology? Why haven't you stopped me
from linking to the Xenu leaflet in my email signatures? Why didn't you
drop me in my tracks when I helped a friend to realize that the
"business" lessons her dentist boss was making her study were really
$cientology tech in disguise?
The answer is simple: You can't. You have no powers. This posting is
proof positive that there are no OTs and no OT powers.
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Post by Galactic_Overlord
G_O
Hail Xenu
http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm
KGB, SP OT.

Don't ask me to demonstrate my powers. The existence of this NG
prooves them.
Galactic_Overlord
2007-08-06 22:44:11 UTC
Permalink
No, I don't believe in OTs by any definition, but if there was a SP-OT,
then I have just demonstrated the power of counter determinedness over
LRH-OTs.

Hail Xenu
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Galactic_Overlord
As I was catching up on posts from the weekend, I ran across the
(always) idiotic posts from .Lily. about who is and isn't a true critic
of Scientology. I gotta remember to killfile her...
It is tricky. She's just interesting enough to read, when other
people quote her, but I killfiled her as a distraction.
Post by Galactic_Overlord
Then it hit me, and I have to credit Arnie Lerma with always reminding
*THERE ARE NO OTs, AND THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN!!*
Close enough. Certainly, no one has ever demonstrated any ability
that would be unique to an OT.
Post by Galactic_Overlord
Where are you, OTs? If you were there, why haven't you stopped us? Why
can't you exteriorize and come get us? I'm still typing; why aren't you
right here with me at this moment making me stop? Or for that matter,
why haven't you stopped me from educating all my friends, family and
co-workers about the lies of $cientology? Why haven't you stopped me
from linking to the Xenu leaflet in my email signatures? Why didn't you
drop me in my tracks when I helped a friend to realize that the
"business" lessons her dentist boss was making her study were really
$cientology tech in disguise?
The answer is simple: You can't. You have no powers. This posting is
proof positive that there are no OTs and no OT powers.
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Post by Galactic_Overlord
G_O
Hail Xenu
http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm
KGB, SP OT.
Don't ask me to demonstrate my powers. The existence of this NG
prooves them.
Kevin Brady
2007-08-07 04:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Its true, you see. SPOTs are infinitely more powerful than mere Cof$ pre-OTs. Even their pathetic "real OTs", the VIIIs, cannot contend with SPOTs. They must cluster together, and try to overcome us through abuse of the courts, trickery, and slight of mind. However, they don't realize that Xenu was onto something. When he blew us all to smithereens, some of us weren't stupid enough to take bodies, like these dumb-ass Churchies. We learned 65 million years ago to control all universes through mere intention (and sometimes a few keystrokes) how to enturbulate them and unmock their self-delusions. SPOTs are infinitely more experienced with theta combat. These relative noobs think you must RELEASE the bts! Idiots! Bts make the ultimate minions, and you don't have to feed them, clothe them or house them, they live forever, and it's easy to make more, you just drop more scientologists into volcanoes!
"Galactic_Overlord" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:46b7a43b$***@news2.lightlink.com...
No, I don't believe in OTs by any definition, but if there was a SP-OT, then I have just demonstrated the power of counter determinedness over LRH-OTs.

Hail Xenu

***@gmail.com wrote:
On Aug 6, 8:36 am, Galactic_Overlord <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:
As I was catching up on posts from the weekend, I ran across the
(always) idiotic posts from .Lily. about who is and isn't a true critic
of Scientology. I gotta remember to killfile her...

It is tricky. She's just interesting enough to read, when other
people quote her, but I killfiled her as a distraction.

Then it hit me, and I have to credit Arnie Lerma with always reminding
us of this basic truth about $cientology:

*THERE ARE NO OTs, AND THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN!!*

Close enough. Certainly, no one has ever demonstrated any ability
that would be unique to an OT.

Where are you, OTs? If you were there, why haven't you stopped us? Why
can't you exteriorize and come get us? I'm still typing; why aren't you
right here with me at this moment making me stop? Or for that matter,
why haven't you stopped me from educating all my friends, family and
co-workers about the lies of $cientology? Why haven't you stopped me
from linking to the Xenu leaflet in my email signatures? Why didn't you
drop me in my tracks when I helped a friend to realize that the
"business" lessons her dentist boss was making her study were really
$cientology tech in disguise?

The answer is simple: You can't. You have no powers. This posting is
proof positive that there are no OTs and no OT powers.

The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
G_O

Hail Xenu

http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm

KGB, SP OT.

Don't ask me to demonstrate my powers. The existence of this NG
prooves them.
John
2007-08-06 23:24:46 UTC
Permalink
snip
Post by k***@gmail.com
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Why theorise about two unlikely things when neither existing produces the
same result?
k***@gmail.com
2007-08-07 00:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
snip
Post by k***@gmail.com
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Why theorise about two unlikely things when neither existing produces the
same result?
As a joke. Or maybe not.... moo hoo ha ha ha!

Spots! come on, that was a JOKE! SP OT? I love it.
a***@null.edu
2007-08-07 14:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Well or course people with evil intentions can and sometimes do function
outside the material realm.

Kevin, we are all so connected, spiritually, that we actually spend most
of our attention trying to "not is" all the "telepathic" noise of life
from other beings.

OT does not mean some sweet and pure, sunday school jesus beingness...

I like you and all but sometimes I get so frustrated that you cant see
the "spiritual"...

Alex
Gerry Armstrong
2007-08-07 17:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@null.edu
Post by k***@gmail.com
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Well or course people with evil intentions can and sometimes do function
outside the material realm.
Where is that? On Hubbard's "thought plane" in his basic command
intention "Battle Tactics?"
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1969-02-16-battle-tactics.html

Hubbard spells out Scientologists' universal ev purp, by the way, in
that same policy letter: to obliterate people. LFBD F/N

Are your cult's lies outside the material realm? Are your
communications here outside the material realm? Are your cult's
litigation activities inside or outside the material realm?

Importantly, is your banality the borderline between your material
realm and wherever else you believe you operate? It's a sort of
thoughtlessness on the thought plane.
Post by a***@null.edu
Kevin, we are all so connected, spiritually, that we actually spend most
of our attention trying to "not is" all the "telepathic" noise of life
from other beings.
Sheepdip. It takes no time. The equation or linkage you postulate in
that sentence doesn't exist. "We are all so connected that X results."
Unadulterated sheepdip.

But you go ahead, spend most of your attention doing what you can't do
if you must.

The cult's OT 3s claim to be able to hear our BT's clamoring. The OTs
are taught that our bodies are a mass of BTs. These BTs' all clamoring
generate the ""telepathic" noise" Alex spends most of his attention,
as he says, trying to "not is." This is also clearly another good
reasons for calling the OTs and all who would be OT "clams."

Take clam Tom Cruise for example. He can hear Katie's BTs clamoring
constantly, so would, as Alex says, spend most of his attention trying
to "not is" all the "telepathic" noise of life from her BTs. He
desperately wants to get her up through OT 3 so they'll shut up. And
of course now there are Suri's BTs, clamoring away with baby talk, and
she can't get rid of them herself. She won't even be able to read the
materials until she's six or seven. Tom's going to have to pick off
Suri's BTs by himself; or blow them off is the more technically
correct term.

By spending most of their attention trying to "not is" all the
"telepathic" noise of life from other beings, the Scientologists have,
by their own postulate, left no attention to hear what isn't noise.
Post by a***@null.edu
OT does not mean some sweet and pure, sunday school jesus beingness...
Lordy, Lordy, the old straw Jesus argument. No, OT doesn't mean
anything like that. "OT" is the scream of the sociopaths and their
psychotics.
Post by a***@null.edu
I like you and all but sometimes I get so frustrated that you cant see
the "spiritual"...
Scientology is every Scientologist's ser fac. LFBD F/N

Now let me jump off here to the examiner.
Post by a***@null.edu
Alex
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
a***@null.edu
2007-08-07 17:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerry Armstrong
Post by a***@null.edu
Post by k***@gmail.com
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Well or course people with evil intentions can and sometimes do function
outside the material realm.
Where is that? On Hubbard's "thought plane" in his basic command
intention "Battle Tactics?"
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1969-02-16-battle-tactics.htm
l
Hubbard spells out Scientologists' universal ev purp, by the way, in
that same policy letter: to obliterate people. LFBD F/N
Are your cult's lies outside the material realm? Are your
communications here outside the material realm? Are your cult's
litigation activities inside or outside the material realm?
Importantly, is your banality the borderline between your material
realm and wherever else you believe you operate? It's a sort of
thoughtlessness on the thought plane.
Post by a***@null.edu
Kevin, we are all so connected, spiritually, that we actually spend most
of our attention trying to "not is" all the "telepathic" noise of life
from other beings.
Sheepdip. It takes no time. The equation or linkage you postulate in
that sentence doesn't exist. "We are all so connected that X results."
Unadulterated sheepdip.
But you go ahead, spend most of your attention doing what you can't do
if you must.
The cult's OT 3s claim to be able to hear our BT's clamoring. The OTs
are taught that our bodies are a mass of BTs. These BTs' all clamoring
generate the ""telepathic" noise" Alex spends most of his attention,
as he says, trying to "not is." This is also clearly another good
reasons for calling the OTs and all who would be OT "clams."
Take clam Tom Cruise for example. He can hear Katie's BTs clamoring
constantly, so would, as Alex says, spend most of his attention trying
to "not is" all the "telepathic" noise of life from her BTs. He
desperately wants to get her up through OT 3 so they'll shut up. And
of course now there are Suri's BTs, clamoring away with baby talk, and
she can't get rid of them herself. She won't even be able to read the
materials until she's six or seven. Tom's going to have to pick off
Suri's BTs by himself; or blow them off is the more technically
correct term.
By spending most of their attention trying to "not is" all the
"telepathic" noise of life from other beings, the Scientologists have,
by their own postulate, left no attention to hear what isn't noise.
Post by a***@null.edu
OT does not mean some sweet and pure, sunday school jesus beingness...
Lordy, Lordy, the old straw Jesus argument. No, OT doesn't mean
anything like that. "OT" is the scream of the sociopaths and their
psychotics.
Post by a***@null.edu
I like you and all but sometimes I get so frustrated that you cant see
the "spiritual"...
Scientology is every Scientologist's ser fac. LFBD F/N
Now let me jump off here to the examiner.
Post by a***@null.edu
Alex
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
So are you going to be in marin in oct? Maybe I'll sit in the peanut
gallery and see your act.

a
Kevin Brady
2007-08-07 19:53:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@null.edu
Post by k***@gmail.com
The very existence of this NG is a refutation of OT powers. Unless
you accept the idea that there are also "SP OTs", or spots, as I like
to call them. If such beings exist, they could counter the effort or
intention of the most ethical group on the planet, your friendly
Church of Scientology.
Well or course people with evil intentions can and sometimes do function
outside the material realm.
Kevin, we are all so connected, spiritually, that we actually spend most
of our attention trying to "not is" all the "telepathic" noise of life
from other beings.
OT does not mean some sweet and pure, sunday school jesus beingness...
I like you and all but sometimes I get so frustrated that you cant see
the "spiritual"...
Alex
No worries, Alex. I see what I see. As a great man (William of Ockham)
once paraphrased me by saying (he was my prophet), while the spiritual may
or may not be factual, it isn't necessary to understand the truth.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
2007-08-07 15:28:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
"SP OTs", or spots
Amidst my almost 7 years on the RPF, for a couple months in 1997, I
was "routing out" (trying to follow the bureaucratic procedure to
"leave" the Sea Org), I refused to read L. Ron Hubbard's doctrines and
I only read the Encyclopedia Britannica, which thankfully Hubbard's
doctrines order each Scientology class room must have sets of
encyclopedia.

In the Britannica articles related to "mysticism," I learned that
humankind has already debunked ALL of the "mystical' practices who
claim to provide paths to higher spiritual abilities.

Scientology's OT stuff is just like all other "mystical" practices
claiming to deliver high spiritual abilities, all are very
disappointing in producing results. There is no mystical group that
can turn out OT people like a car factory turns out finished cars.

There's been no big changes in our world as a result of any of the
efforts of Scientology's "OTs" made these last 40 odd years.

Sam Harris in this lecture mentions if Jesus returns and demonstrates
his powers, there would be no disputing the validity of Christianity.

Likewise, if ANY of the Scientology OTs were to demonstrate their
powers, likewise there would be no disputing the validity of
Scientology's/Hubbard's claims of what an OT supposedly can do.

Scientology does not deliver what it promises.

But no other mystical group has done so yet either.

I think any of the "Beyond Belief" lectures are good to watch by any
ex Scientology person.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=beyond+belief

Chuck Beatty
a***@null.edu
2007-08-07 16:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
"SP OTs", or spots
Amidst my almost 7 years on the RPF, for a couple months in 1997, I
was "routing out" (trying to follow the bureaucratic procedure to
"leave" the Sea Org), I refused to read L. Ron Hubbard's doctrines and
I only read the Encyclopedia Britannica, which thankfully Hubbard's
doctrines order each Scientology class room must have sets of
encyclopedia.
In the Britannica articles related to "mysticism," I learned that
humankind has already debunked ALL of the "mystical' practices who
claim to provide paths to higher spiritual abilities.
Scientology's OT stuff is just like all other "mystical" practices
claiming to deliver high spiritual abilities, all are very
disappointing in producing results. There is no mystical group that
can turn out OT people like a car factory turns out finished cars.
There's been no big changes in our world as a result of any of the
efforts of Scientology's "OTs" made these last 40 odd years.
Sam Harris in this lecture mentions if Jesus returns and demonstrates
his powers, there would be no disputing the validity of Christianity.
Likewise, if ANY of the Scientology OTs were to demonstrate their
powers, likewise there would be no disputing the validity of
Scientology's/Hubbard's claims of what an OT supposedly can do.
Scientology does not deliver what it promises.
But no other mystical group has done so yet either.
I think any of the "Beyond Belief" lectures are good to watch by any
ex Scientology person.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=beyond+belief
Chuck Beatty
As an alternate viewpoint; why have people throughout know history
strived for "mystical" knowledge? Even in this "age of science"?

I think there is a general MU on the whole concept of OT. And widespread
intuition that there is something more.....

alex
Zinj
2007-08-07 16:46:52 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by a***@null.edu
Post by chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Scientology does not deliver what it promises.
But no other mystical group has done so yet either.
I think any of the "Beyond Belief" lectures are good to watch by any
ex Scientology person.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=beyond+belief
Chuck Beatty
As an alternate viewpoint; why have people throughout know history
strived for "mystical" knowledge? Even in this "age of science"?
I think there is a general MU on the whole concept of OT. And widespread
intuition that there is something more.....
alex
It's not an MU Alex, and you know it. It's taking the *claims* for
'OT' and 'Clear' as made by Ron and His 'Church' at face value.
That both the 'Church' and Scientologists are in a desperate back-
pedal to disguise the failure of the claims behind bushells of
meaningless and mundane and often silly 'Success Stories' in the
hopes of distracting from the 'claims' is just par for the course.

But, as for 'mysticism' being universally debunked. Well, in my
opinion, any mysticism that can't survive a thorough 'debunking'
intact isn't very mystical in the first place.

Which brings us back to Scientology. It can't survive its
debunking because Ron *chose* to create his 'mysticism' in the
cheeziest of terms; *Sooper Powerz*; fantastic 'abilities'; magic
manipulation and 'certainty' worthy of a lobotomy is at the core of
that debunking.

A 'Scientology world' would at its best be comic-book ready (a
combination of Ritchie Rich and Superman, with a little Green
Lantern thrown in) but, with plenty of Archipel Gulag and 1984
thrown in to impress the timid (and timidity trained).

For an example of a mysticism that *survives* its debunking, you
might look to Mercerism, the mysticism invented by Philip K. Dick
for 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep'. In that one, the
adherents use an 'empathy box' which is oddly reminiscent of the e-
meter, but, the core *mysticism* of Mercerism is inherently immune
to 'debunking'.

Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
a***@null.edu
2007-08-07 17:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zinj
<snip>
Post by a***@null.edu
Post by chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Scientology does not deliver what it promises.
But no other mystical group has done so yet either.
I think any of the "Beyond Belief" lectures are good to watch by any
ex Scientology person.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=beyond+belief
Chuck Beatty
As an alternate viewpoint; why have people throughout know history
strived for "mystical" knowledge? Even in this "age of science"?
I think there is a general MU on the whole concept of OT. And widespread
intuition that there is something more.....
alex
It's not an MU Alex, and you know it. It's taking the *claims* for
'OT' and 'Clear' as made by Ron and His 'Church' at face value.
That both the 'Church' and Scientologists are in a desperate back-
pedal to disguise the failure of the claims behind bushells of
meaningless and mundane and often silly 'Success Stories' in the
hopes of distracting from the 'claims' is just par for the course.
But, as for 'mysticism' being universally debunked. Well, in my
opinion, any mysticism that can't survive a thorough 'debunking'
intact isn't very mystical in the first place.
Which brings us back to Scientology. It can't survive its
debunking because Ron *chose* to create his 'mysticism' in the
cheeziest of terms; *Sooper Powerz*; fantastic 'abilities'; magic
manipulation and 'certainty' worthy of a lobotomy is at the core of
that debunking.
A 'Scientology world' would at its best be comic-book ready (a
combination of Ritchie Rich and Superman, with a little Green
Lantern thrown in) but, with plenty of Archipel Gulag and 1984
thrown in to impress the timid (and timidity trained).
For an example of a mysticism that *survives* its debunking, you
might look to Mercerism, the mysticism invented by Philip K. Dick
for 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep'. In that one, the
adherents use an 'empathy box' which is oddly reminiscent of the e-
meter, but, the core *mysticism* of Mercerism is inherently immune
to 'debunking'.
Zinj
Havent availed myself of much "dick" recently.

Have to go to the lib.

:)

a
Kevin Brady
2007-08-07 20:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@null.edu
Post by Zinj
<snip>
Post by a***@null.edu
Post by chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Scientology does not deliver what it promises.
But no other mystical group has done so yet either.
I think any of the "Beyond Belief" lectures are good to watch by any
ex Scientology person.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=beyond+belief
Chuck Beatty
As an alternate viewpoint; why have people throughout know history
strived for "mystical" knowledge? Even in this "age of science"?
I think there is a general MU on the whole concept of OT. And widespread
intuition that there is something more.....
alex
It's not an MU Alex, and you know it. It's taking the *claims* for
'OT' and 'Clear' as made by Ron and His 'Church' at face value.
That both the 'Church' and Scientologists are in a desperate back-
pedal to disguise the failure of the claims behind bushells of
meaningless and mundane and often silly 'Success Stories' in the
hopes of distracting from the 'claims' is just par for the course.
But, as for 'mysticism' being universally debunked. Well, in my
opinion, any mysticism that can't survive a thorough 'debunking'
intact isn't very mystical in the first place.
Which brings us back to Scientology. It can't survive its
debunking because Ron *chose* to create his 'mysticism' in the
cheeziest of terms; *Sooper Powerz*; fantastic 'abilities'; magic
manipulation and 'certainty' worthy of a lobotomy is at the core of
that debunking.
A 'Scientology world' would at its best be comic-book ready (a
combination of Ritchie Rich and Superman, with a little Green
Lantern thrown in) but, with plenty of Archipel Gulag and 1984
thrown in to impress the timid (and timidity trained).
For an example of a mysticism that *survives* its debunking, you
might look to Mercerism, the mysticism invented by Philip K. Dick
for 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep'. In that one, the
adherents use an 'empathy box' which is oddly reminiscent of the e-
meter, but, the core *mysticism* of Mercerism is inherently immune
to 'debunking'.
Zinj
Havent availed myself of much "dick" recently.
You don't know what you're missing! Just ask "bush"! Seriously, my little
Xenu is lonely.
Kevin Brady
2007-08-07 19:59:21 UTC
Permalink
You're right that a quick demonstration of the paranormal by an OT would go
a long way towards engendering belief in scientology. However, even if that
DID happen (which it never has), it wouldn't be proof that scientology had
been responsible for that person's ability, even if he hadn't had it before,
and did after, because perhaps it was received by "divine grace".

If Jesus came back and started doing miracles (like getting Bush to talk to
congress without his minder, Cheney, in tow), it wouldn't prove that
Christianity made the way to heaven, only that some extra-dimensional being
had incarnated and demonstrated powers, and ASSERTED that they had some
"meaning" concerning the origins of the universe, the powers of his
"father", and a supposed "afterlife". The assertion that his powers prove
his holiness is illogical.
Post by chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
"SP OTs", or spots
Amidst my almost 7 years on the RPF, for a couple months in 1997, I
was "routing out" (trying to follow the bureaucratic procedure to
"leave" the Sea Org), I refused to read L. Ron Hubbard's doctrines and
I only read the Encyclopedia Britannica, which thankfully Hubbard's
doctrines order each Scientology class room must have sets of
encyclopedia.
In the Britannica articles related to "mysticism," I learned that
humankind has already debunked ALL of the "mystical' practices who
claim to provide paths to higher spiritual abilities.
Scientology's OT stuff is just like all other "mystical" practices
claiming to deliver high spiritual abilities, all are very
disappointing in producing results. There is no mystical group that
can turn out OT people like a car factory turns out finished cars.
There's been no big changes in our world as a result of any of the
efforts of Scientology's "OTs" made these last 40 odd years.
Sam Harris in this lecture mentions if Jesus returns and demonstrates
his powers, there would be no disputing the validity of Christianity.
Likewise, if ANY of the Scientology OTs were to demonstrate their
powers, likewise there would be no disputing the validity of
Scientology's/Hubbard's claims of what an OT supposedly can do.
Scientology does not deliver what it promises.
But no other mystical group has done so yet either.
I think any of the "Beyond Belief" lectures are good to watch by any
ex Scientology person.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=beyond+belief
Chuck Beatty
The impossible to handle .Lily FireRed.
2007-08-08 22:38:39 UTC
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